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#26 2009-05-29 8:19 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Farmerkev wrote:
This is another piss poor idea brought to you by people that have nothing but piss poor ideas.
Like....dealership owners that have sued to prevent more dealerships from opening?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#27 2009-05-29 8:22 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
bratboy wrote:
Yeah, it's unheard of.
Perhaps being viewed as the "mcdonalds" of automakers hasn't helped a lot?
Company operated stores.
In other words, these losers cost the company money.
A vast difference.
Do your part to combat global warming.
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#28 2009-05-29 8:22 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
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Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
bratboy wrote:
Farmerkev wrote:
This is another piss poor idea brought to you by people that have nothing but piss poor ideas.
Like....dealership owners that have sued to prevent more dealerships from opening?
Now you're just arguing the other way to argue.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#29 2009-05-29 8:23 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Kev's got money in a dealership. Maybe one on the list.
Brigid O'Shaughnessy: I haven't lived a good life. I've been bad, worse than you could know.
Sam Spade: You know, that's good, because if you actually were as innocent as you pretend to be, we'd never get anywhere.
http://sitruc.blip.tv/file/2661495/
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#30 2009-05-29 8:24 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
daemon wrote:
Kev's got money in a dealership. Maybe one on the list.
No I don't.
I would have money through mutual funds in the auto makers but no direct investment in a local dealership.
I've always been in other business.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#31 2009-05-29 8:27 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Farmerkev wrote:
bratboy wrote:
Yeah, it's unheard of.
Perhaps being viewed as the "mcdonalds" of automakers hasn't helped a lot?Company operated stores.
In other words, these losers cost the company money.
A vast difference.
Really, so nothing goes to waste for the company when you're only selling an average of 199 cars a year per store?
This just seems like common sense to me. It's not wonder dealers have sued time and time again to try and prevent more dealerships from opening.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#32 2009-05-29 8:28 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Sure fooled me. Relative/friend?
Brigid O'Shaughnessy: I haven't lived a good life. I've been bad, worse than you could know.
Sam Spade: You know, that's good, because if you actually were as innocent as you pretend to be, we'd never get anywhere.
http://sitruc.blip.tv/file/2661495/
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#33 2009-05-29 8:32 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
bratboy wrote:
Farmerkev wrote:
bratboy wrote:
Yeah, it's unheard of.
Perhaps being viewed as the "mcdonalds" of automakers hasn't helped a lot?Company operated stores.
In other words, these losers cost the company money.
A vast difference.Really, so nothing goes to waste for the company when you're only selling an average of 199 cars a year per store?
This just seems like common sense to me. It's not wonder dealers have sued time and time again to try and prevent more dealerships from opening.
You're talking about two different sides of the equation.
The dealers sued to keep their exclusive franchise so they could make more money with no competition.
That hurts the corporation.
These aren't company stores. They are franchises and they pay out the ass to keep that franchise.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#34 2009-05-29 8:35 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
daemon wrote:
Sure fooled me. Relative/friend?
No, somebody that has owned/operated many different business' over the years.
This is so obviously ignorant I would think everyone would immediately see the stupidity.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#35 2009-05-29 8:43 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
You know what hurts a corporation more than no competition to drive sales, kev? When two franchises of it fail trying to compete with each other when the area can support one of them.
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#36 2009-05-29 8:53 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
I'll put it this way.
You've got a restaurant.
The waiters all work for tips only PLUS pay you to work there and pay you for their mandatory uniforms and a share of the advertising.
The restaurant would obviously have very happy customers if their was one waiter per small table and multiple waiters per large group but the waiters wouldn't be too happy with that cause they can't make as much money as they could waiting multiple tables.
Too few waiters and the customer goes someplace else with better service and your restaurant closes.
You can extend this example for the other side to include it not being the waiters fault if the kitchen turns out piss poor overpriced food nobody wants to eat.
Closing dealerships is getting rid of people paying you to work for you and move your product.
Unless they were doing something to drive customers away it doesn't make business sense.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#37 2009-05-29 9:06 am
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
- Royal Wombat
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34106
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Farmerkev wrote:
Closing dealerships is getting rid of people paying you to work for you and move your product.
Unless they were doing something to drive customers away it doesn't make business sense.
So the corporation has no reason to want their dealerships bringing in enough cash to pay for upkeep, improvements, advertising, and amenities?
Because I can guarantee you that the place selling 1,500 cars a year is going to be better kept, have more advertising, and have more talented salespeople than the dealership down the street scraping by on 200 vehicles a year.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#38 2009-05-29 9:07 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
But if the waiters stop getting enough in tips to pay you for all that crap because you hired to many damn waiters for the market to effectively support them all then you've hosed yourself and the only relatively reliable way to keep going save enough of them is to selectively prune through them rather then letting things fall apart then picking through the pieces.
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#39 2009-05-29 9:12 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
What you are doing is the equivalent of saying someone when there is evidence of an elevated white cell cause white cells fight disease.
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#40 2009-05-29 9:22 am
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist
- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9611
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
I can't believe Farmerkev's trying to sustain his absurd argument.
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#41 2009-05-29 9:24 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
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- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
No, I'm done with trying to explain how to make money in business.
Continue on with your lives.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#42 2009-05-29 9:31 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Be nice and stay somewhat on topic.
That said no one here has argued that the dealership situation isn't a problem one way or another, that it's the only problem, or that fixing whatever is wrong wrong at the dealer level will fix what wrong will fix the big three. Many of us have argued however that dealing with every problem but this will not be enough to save the big three. This needs to be fixed too.
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#43 2009-05-29 9:36 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Last fall, while the 'bankrupt' idea was just surfacing, I asked my 20something roommate (local AdvanceAuto assistant mgr.) about the what that would mean.
His instant response:
"The end of the dealership system."
So, I'm not at all surprised by these developments. It will be messy.
Brigid O'Shaughnessy: I haven't lived a good life. I've been bad, worse than you could know.
Sam Spade: You know, that's good, because if you actually were as innocent as you pretend to be, we'd never get anywhere.
http://sitruc.blip.tv/file/2661495/
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#44 2009-05-29 9:38 am
- dv
- Negusa Negest
- Moderator
- From: Minneapolis, MN
- Registered: 1999-08-30
- Posts: 18091
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Daniel wrote:
So, between 88% and 92% of all Chrysler dealers are Republicans. Of course the vast majority of the closed ones will be Republican; the vast majority of all of them are Republican!
You're not too far off.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/ … icans.html
"Now commences the process of cutting off the head, which generally takes from an hour to an hour and a half by an expert workman with a sharp blade." -Reuben Delano, Wanderings and Adventures
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#45 2009-05-29 9:50 am
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34076
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Farmerkev wrote:
No, I'm done with trying to explain how to make money in business.
Continue on with your lives.
Maybe you should start teaching business school. You clearly know something that all of them don't.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#46 2009-05-29 9:52 am
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
- Moderator
- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18616
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Tallgeese wrote:
Farmerkev wrote:
No, I'm done with trying to explain how to make money in business.
Continue on with your lives.Maybe you should start teaching business school. You clearly know something that all of them don't.
Yes, all those Harvard business grads have really done well.
Excellent point.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#47 2009-05-29 9:57 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
dv wrote:
Daniel wrote:
So, between 88% and 92% of all Chrysler dealers are Republicans. Of course the vast majority of the closed ones will be Republican; the vast majority of all of them are Republican!
You're not too far off.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/05/ … icans.html
Overall, 88 percent of the contributions from car dealers went to Republican candidates and just 12 percent to Democratic candidates. By comparison, the list of dealers on Doug Ross's list (which I haven't vetted, but I assume is fine) gave 92 percent of their money to Republicans -- not really a significant difference.
I'm spot on. 
Olbermann covered that data in his WTF segment last night.
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#48 2009-05-29 9:59 am
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34076
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Farmerkev wrote:
Tallgeese wrote:
Farmerkev wrote:
No, I'm done with trying to explain how to make money in business.
Continue on with your lives.Maybe you should start teaching business school. You clearly know something that all of them don't.
Yes, all those Harvard business grads have really done well.
Excellent point.
I'm sure that some good rural wisdom is just what's needed here. After all, just because the dealers, manufacturers, and industry analysts have been talking about the dealer-density problem for decades doesn't mean that they have any idea what they're talking about.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#49 2009-05-29 10:12 am
- sturner
- Royal High Poobah
- Moderator
- From: Carrollton, TX USA
- Registered: 2000-01-31
- Posts: 13779
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
Just remember that the best practices of the Havard Business school was not the way to run a war.
The problem with statistics is that people get lost in the numbers and forget to look at the meanings of the actions and their consequences. While modeling works, your model has to be correct for the situation or you get a false outcome.
Is that clear or am I just adding to the confusion?
I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."
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#50 2009-05-29 10:44 am
Re: tinfoil hat: Is there a pattern to Chrysler dealership closures?
I'm also seeing a lot of polarized thinking. Sometimes the extremes of a given situation are not the best place to construct a model from. Sometimes things are or aren't a problem because they are one way or another but rather they are or aren't at a sweet spot between those extremes and the sweet spot for one situation rarely match the sweet spot for another. Sometimes things are a problem because they crossed a certain threshold somewhere between the extremes. Sometimes that sweet spot or threshold only exists under the influence of other factors.
Last edited by ScifiterX (2009-05-29 10:56 am)
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