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You could try reading it, if an entire page isn't too much, tech gurus.

Bat wrote:

You could try reading it, if an entire page isn't too much, tech gurus.

RTFA? Are you mad?!

Can't you be the proverbial mama bird and digest it, then regurgitate it into my cranium?

Last edited by robco (2009-07-18 11:14 am)

1.21 GigaWatts

robco wrote:

RTFA? Are you mad?!

Can't you be the proverbial mama bird and digest it, then regurgitate it into my cranium?

But Rob, you already know all this...

AMD/ATi is putting a big effort into better mobile CPUs. Their newest core logic, with decent graphics, is making its debut, but, I think, isn't 100% yet (haven't read AT's article). NV claims to have rights to make x86 CPUs and be designing one, but Intel disputes the license; most think the same, and Intel won't give them one now. Intel is pulling GPU functions into the CPU as they make their renewed grab for the graphics market (Larrabee). IIRC NV is trumpeting ION 2 as the best thing since [..].

It's a complex situation and changing fast. I'll keep an eye or two peeled for related items.

Last I checked ATi was ahead in the integrated graphics area. If the 4870 is OK by you...

NV making a CPU, and being able to sell it, are two different things. Intel holds the x86 IP. AMD's license goes back many years.

robco wrote:

..
Again, the problem coming down to AMD being unwilling or unable to make mobile integrated chipsets that work with Intel CPUs. I'm just not sure why Intel is spurning NV in this manner - they have next to no expertise in this area. One would think they would welcome NV's help in bolstering their platform.

I'm not aware of AMD chipsets being unable to support Intel CPUs, but I haven't paid close enough attention to the mobo market lately to say what mobos have/are/will be made with AMD chipsets and their associated sockets. I can't think of a reason chipsets by one couldn't support the other's CPUs, but Intel's market dominance the last couple of years may've resulted in an abundance of Intel boards such that it makes little sense to make AMD-chipset boards supporting Intel sockets. It's not a reciprocal situation, with a bunch of Intel boards supporting Phenom.

Bad blood between Intel and NV goes back at least to Jen-Hsen's 'can of whoop-ass' remark. NV and MS goes back much further, to NV screwing MS over Xbox 1 chip prices and continuing since. NV is a very... 'aggressive' company, and their bridge-burning hubris comes home to roost when things go badly a la exploding chips, screwing OEM partners when losing money etc. NV and Intel have been on a collision course since Larrabee surfaced quite some time back.

In any case, AT got an early look at AMD's latest, albeit a bit too early...

It seems that in our rush to secure this motherboard that we overlooked one very important aspect during our investigation. It turns out the driver set we were privy to for testing is an early beta set missing several important driver features while AMD is still optimizing performance. We encountered no stability problems running a multitude of benchmarks, but the lack of features and optimizations preclude us from publishing a meaningful first look, especially for those looking to use this new platform in an HTPC or SFF gaming system. Of course, there were discussions with AMD explaining some of the early problems we ran into during testing. As such, AMD requested that we wait until the drivers are mature and based on early test results we will heed their requests.

What we can do today is discuss some early observations and provide a couple of results that are indicative of the board's capability with an early BIOS and a quick look at Blu-ray playback results. First off, even with less than stellar drivers, the board's performance was equal to or better than the current 780G/790GX motherboards and it will only improve. How much is up for discussion as AMD designated the new chipset just a half point higher for a reason.

The graphics core in the 785G is upgraded from the HD3200/3300 utilized in the 780G/790GX to the HD4200. The primary difference between the cores is that the HD4200 fully supports DX10.1, Unified Video Decoder 2.0 (UVD), hardware accelerated picture in picture capabilities, dynamic contrast, HQ video scaling, hardware accelerated video transcoding, and full Powerplay support. The graphics core still runs at 500MHz (in current form) and at least in our particular sample, we were able to reach 1057MHz without too much trouble.

What does all this mean? For one, thanks to the HD4200, AMD finally offers multi-channel LPCM audio output plus additional hardware video accelerated functions. As far as performance is concerned, expect a 5%~ 15% performance increase in games. That sounds impressive, but playing the Sims 3 at 1024x768 with medium quality settings resulted in an average framerate increase from 23.9fps on the 780G to 26.1fps on the 785G with alpha level drivers. The biggest difference occurred in minimum frame rates with an increase from 12fps on the 780G to 15fps on the 785G. Otherwise, the GPU capabilities are fine for casual gaming (Plants vs Zombies) and flash based games.

For those not tracking this, NV talked down 10.1 support as they didn't have it, but come October NV chips, albeit lower-end, will support 10.1. The smack talk is ending... trouble is, ATi should have DX11 chips out by then.

http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3599

The GTX 285 also works in the Mac Pro without flashing, iff you have another NVidia card in there to get the Mac to load NV drivers on startup.

Good point about EFI, it's a shame nobody really uses it. I was hopeful a few years ago that the EFI switch would lead to overclockable Macs and stuff but the OSX86 project brought us that first!

Well flashing has come a long way since the old days. Prolly much better now with the x86 hardware. I've noticed a lot better success stories from them but its just not getting the buzz like it used to now with Apple offering better GPUs. We need more good flashing stories in the Hardware Hacking forum here of more recent boards .

I wouldn't totally rule out AMD mobile GPUs. Aside from non existant drivers, in favor of the makers patching their own, i've not had terrible performance. The 3470 in my mom's Vaio has been a steady performer whenever i've had the chance to use it. Beats out some of the similar 8 series chips from NV even if its a low end. I wouldn't mind buying another laptop with ATI GPUs that have a bit more power, as long as Mobility Modder still works or ATI finally gets smart and just extends desktop drivers to cover mobility. Heck i'm using desktop 3470 drivers right now anyways thx to modder.

Have you tried them lately? ATi's been working steadily on the Linux side... anyway Turion's basically dead, replaced for some time by the Puma/Griffin platform. I'm scoping out how it performs, but comparisons aren't easy to come by. Chipset support has lagged, one reason it's good AMD's doing its own, pretty well and improving. Better still as they leapfrog down to 45nm and below.

More as I can dig up solid info.