Quantcast

Forums | MacLife

You are not logged in.

#1 2009-08-14 8:39 am

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

I have another physics question

We are told that our Universe is measurable, that it's sort of this big ball of existence that expanded outward in every direction from a singularity. So it's also, apparently, finite, right? That is to say, it doesn't just go on forever and ever, does it?

So what I'm asking is, if you could somehow overcome the problem of traversing the vast distance of our Universe, would it be hypothetically possible for a space traveler to eventually reach the "outside edge?" If so, could he, she, or it then cross that boundary, and leave our Universe behind, journeying out into a black, starless void? Would they eventually bump into other neighboring Universes?

Or does the idea that both space and time are a product of our Universe's creation mean that space-time cannot exist outside our Universe, and there is no way to physically exit it in the conventional way that I'm imagining?

Just curious.

Thank you in advance for your input...


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#2 2009-08-14 9:13 am

Fracai
Evacipate
From: St. Elsewhere
Registered: 2000-05-25
Posts: 2835

Re: I have another physics question

Check out AstronomyCast.  Particularly, episodes:
28 What is the Universe expanding into?
58 Inflation
77 Centre of the Universe
78 How Big is the Universe?
79 What is the shape of the Universe?
81 Questions on the Shape, Size and Centre of the Universe

http://www.astronomycast.com/category/a … cosmology/

Basically though, there's no "outside edge".  Don't try to imagine the Universe (or multiple Universes) as existing in some external space like galaxies do inside the Universe.  Imagine being a 2D form on the surface of an expanding balloon.  Your "Universe" is getting bigger, but that's because space itself is expanding.  It's not expanding into something that you could get to if you could only jump off the surface of the balloon.

As for being infinite or not, my understanding from AstronomyCast 79 is that it appears like the Universe might be infinite, but we're not sure.  For one, it's expanding so the "edge", where light would loop back around at us, is beyond the region of space that we can see (ie. the distance from objects in those regions of space to us is expanding faster than their light can traverse to reach us).  All we can do is put a lower limit on the size of the Universe.


   i am jack's amusing sig file
        http://alum.wpi.edu/~arno/i/s.png
Satellite Lot :: Second Summer

Offline

 

#3 2009-08-14 9:36 am

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

So could we, hypothetically, travel to a place where stars are so few and far between that we'd be in a starless void, but still "in" the Universe?


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#4 2009-08-14 1:21 pm

sturner
Royal High Poobah
Moderator
From: Carrollton, TX USA
Registered: 2000-01-31
Posts: 13778

Re: I have another physics question

Yes, but there are theories that the universe is infinite.


I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."

Offline

 

#5 2009-08-14 2:07 pm

ukimalefu
4 8 15 16 23 42
Moderator
From: time loop
Registered: 2002-09-09
Posts: 9351
Website

Re: I have another physics question

sturner wrote:

Yes, but there are theories that the universe is infinite.

I believe it is.

To me, the word "universe" includes everything. Even the empty spaces within or around it.

I like it when people say "The known Universe".

Offline

 

#6 2009-08-14 2:15 pm

elpato84
is Heavy Weapons Guy
From: red team
Registered: 2002-05-25
Posts: 3306

Re: I have another physics question

The airplane would NOT take off.


"I personally think that with the budget they've planned, Halo [the movie] will be a failure. I think Halo will not make the money back in the end."
-Uwe Boll (made the films: Alone in the Dark, House of the Dead, Bloodrayne, Far Cry, Postal)

Offline

 

#7 2009-08-14 2:18 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34066

Re: I have another physics question

What about the helicopter?


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

Offline

 

#8 2009-08-14 2:22 pm

elpato84
is Heavy Weapons Guy
From: red team
Registered: 2002-05-25
Posts: 3306

Re: I have another physics question

It would do one of those 1900 era film strips in fast motion of it flipping over and breaking into a million pieces.


"I personally think that with the budget they've planned, Halo [the movie] will be a failure. I think Halo will not make the money back in the end."
-Uwe Boll (made the films: Alone in the Dark, House of the Dead, Bloodrayne, Far Cry, Postal)

Offline

 

#9 2009-08-14 2:43 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34066

Re: I have another physics question

Or you can see a modern military helicopter destroy itself.

Last edited by Tallgeese (2009-08-14 2:45 pm)


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

Offline

 

#10 2009-08-14 2:45 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34066

Re: I have another physics question

(and that kids is why you need to leave some slack in your tiedown chains)


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

Offline

 

#11 2009-08-14 4:02 pm

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: I have another physics question

What about higher dimensions, bubble universes, and the interstices 'in between?' The whichness of where?


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

Offline

 

#12 2009-08-14 4:02 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50393
Website

Re: I have another physics question

Bren wrote:

if you could somehow overcome the problem of traversing the vast distance of our Universe, would it be hypothetically possible for a space traveler to eventually reach the "outside edge?"

Only on the twilight zone, or the outer limits.

If so, could he, she, or it then cross that boundary, and leave our Universe behind, journeying out into a black, starless void? Would they eventually bump into other neighboring Universes?

I don't believe so. Keep in mind that time is relative, I don't know how fast the universe is expanding, but I think at the outside edge, the "big bang" (or the "Let there be light") for all practical purposes just happened, even though 6,000 years have gone by for us wink

Or does the idea that both space and time are a product of our Universe's creation mean that space-time cannot exist outside our Universe, and there is no way to physically exit it in the conventional way that I'm imagining?

I'm no samantha carter (I don't have the cleavage) but I suspect current theory says we can't exit.

Just curious.

OMG! You killed the cat!


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

Offline

 

#13 2009-08-14 4:38 pm

ukimalefu
4 8 15 16 23 42
Moderator
From: time loop
Registered: 2002-09-09
Posts: 9351
Website

Re: I have another physics question

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown. In between there are doors.

BREAK ON TROUGH TO THE OTHER SIDE! BREAK ON TROU...

Uh... sorry. Go back to your topic.

Offline

 

#14 2009-08-14 4:59 pm

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

You guys are totally immature!

Everybody knows helicopters can't fly in outer space.


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#15 2009-08-14 5:19 pm

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: I have another physics question

Roflcopters can.

...usually.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

Offline

 

#16 2009-08-14 7:25 pm

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: I have another physics question

resedit wrote:

I'm no samantha carter (I don't have the cleavage)

Between [s]these[/s]this and your other recent posts, we can tell where your head is at today. http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/maxinenurse.gif

No wonder you're so... deeply into the health care debate. wink

Just curious.

OMG! You killed the cat!

I doubt it- in fact, there's a news item about it.

Cats get a bad rap on the Internet, frequently stereotyped as LOL ignoramuses, forever shredding grammar like a half-dead mouse in what the World Wide Web would have us believe is their endless quest for "cheezburgers."

Despite the pigeonholing, cats play piano on YouTube and have their own Facebook profiles, and kitties who tweet exhibit a working knowledge of sentence construction that challenges those of their human Twitter compatriots. So it was only a matter of time before a feline got around to earning an online high school equivalency diploma.

Rescued from a ditch when she was no more than a teeny, tiny ball of fluff, Oreo C. Collins, a 2-year-old tuxedo cat from Macon, Ga., may be the very first in her family to obtain a 'high school' diploma — online or off. (Of course, we may never know for sure because, as she wrote in her "life experience essay" portion of the test, she's adopted.) Kelvin Collins, president and CEO of the Better Business Bureau of Central Georgia and Oreo's rescuer, encouraged Oreo to seek her "education," by taking part in the BBB's ongoing investigation of online diploma mills.

"Oreo's a really smart cat," Collins said in a recent telephone interview with msnbc.com. So smart that Oreo garnered mostly As in the online test, with some of her credits earned from her aforementioned life experience essay about her adoption into the Collins family.

Clever cat earns ‘high school diploma’ online

I think Bren got his GED there? confused

ukimalefu wrote:

There are things that are known, and things that are unknown. In between there are doors.

DROP ON TROU TO THE OTHER SIDE! DROP ON TROU...

Uh... sorry. Go back to your topic.

Um... I think I'm too traumatized. eek


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

Offline

 

#17 2009-08-14 7:29 pm

ukimalefu
4 8 15 16 23 42
Moderator
From: time loop
Registered: 2002-09-09
Posts: 9351
Website

Re: I have another physics question

Bren wrote:

You guys are totally immature!

NO! U R!

tongue  http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/SeeYa.gif

Offline

 

#18 2009-08-14 8:17 pm

Metacell
misanthropist
From: The space between the spaces
Registered: 2005-03-19
Posts: 5861
Website

Re: I have another physics question

I was led to believe the that space was curved and recursive and that the center of the universe lay in subspace such that all points in the universe were equidistant from it.

I punched that guy in the face.


Ho Eyo He Hum

Offline

 

#19 2009-08-14 8:57 pm

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

Boobies!


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#20 2009-08-14 10:26 pm

Zapata
Member
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2000-11-08
Posts: 830

Re: I have another physics question

Tallgeese wrote:

(and that kids is why you need to leave some slack in your tiedown chains)

I don't think it was due to it being tied down. It looks like they were running the rotors at the natural frequency of the structure which caused it to tear itself apart.

Offline

 

#21 2009-08-14 10:49 pm

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

Damn, you're gettin' into Tesla territory there! I understand Tesla once built some sort of gizmo which could destroy large buildings just by vibrating them at a certain frequency. I sure would like to have a toy like that!


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#22 2009-08-14 11:33 pm

Zapata
Member
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: 2000-11-08
Posts: 830

Re: I have another physics question

Here you go

I used to test aircraft components on shakers to ensure that their natural frequencies were outside of the range of normal operation.

Offline

 

#23 2009-08-14 11:50 pm

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

I would need it in a more portable form...


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

#24 2009-08-15 12:18 am

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34066

Re: I have another physics question

Zapata wrote:

Tallgeese wrote:

(and that kids is why you need to leave some slack in your tiedown chains)

I don't think it was due to it being tied down. It looks like they were running the rotors at the natural frequency of the structure which caused it to tear itself apart.

No, it's called ground resonance. When in flight or on the ground with the ability to 'bounce' so to speak, the vibration of the blades doesn't set up a resonance. When it's tied too tightly to the deck the vibrations feed back through it and it can shake apart. I've been in charge of helicopter flight deck safety and operations, it's a very important thing to teach the handlers, to always leave slack in the chains and avoid this problem.


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

Offline

 

#25 2009-08-15 12:54 am

Bren
Member
From: San Francisco, CA, USA
Registered: 1999-06-18
Posts: 5448
Website

Re: I have another physics question

Doesn't having your helicopter chained to the ground make it more difficult to take off?


"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."

                                            --Steve Jobs

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.6
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson