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resedit wrote:

That's also the course of action the ACORN offices should have taken, though I don't think they were legally obligated to. Not one of them did to my knowledge.

I can't believe you are still saying this, res.

You mean there was an ACORN office that called the cops?

All I saw was excuses.
I'll go back and read that thread.

Which office notified authorities?

resedit wrote:

No. The safest course of action would be to inform the authorities, as the law requires, of a case of sexual predation that he knew about.

Again, safe for whom? Certainly not safe for the kid who is going to be dragged through the court system and outted to his family and dealing with cops and prosecutors who - twenty years ago and still today - aren't always friendly or even give half a smurf about gays and lesbians. Do you know how many crimes against gays and lesbians went unreported back in the day? A lot. Why? Because it wasn't worth the effort to go to the cops who wouldn't do anything anyway because "they" deserved what they got.

It's a poor analogy and I'm not equating sexual orientation with race here but, it would be like a black man expecting justice in the 1930's South who shot a white man in self-defense. It ain't gonna happen.

"Doing the right thing" as you suggest in your narrow world view could have meant this kid being tossed out on the street by his parents, ignored by the police, assaulted by his peers. I find this particularly interesting because this is exactly the sort of situation social conservatives want to foster. To drive gay and lesbian kids underground, to make them ashamed of who they are and that they need to change. Perhaps today it would be a different situation - but in most places in the US it isn't. If you think justice is blind and unprejudiced, than you're more idealistic that most liberals. Justice isn't blind and was (and is) often homophobic.

MY BASELESS ASSUMPTION BEATS YOUR LOGICAL DEDUCTION

It's the obvious consequence one would expect from forcibly outing a young person.

resedit wrote:

robco wrote:

resedit wrote:

No. The safest course of action would be to inform the authorities, as the law requires, of a case of sexual predation that he knew about.

Again, safe for whom? Certainly not safe for the kid who is going to be dragged through the court system and outted to his family and dealing with cops and prosecutors who - twenty years ago and still today - aren't always friendly or even give half a smurf about gays and lesbians.

How the hell do you know that?

Let's see, possibly because I am one. I saw what happened to kids in my school who were just perceived as being gay. They were not treated well. Let's see you like anecdotal evidence so here goes:
* I haven't spoken to my family going on ten years now. I clammed up and stayed in the closet until I was well out of college and financially independent. I was becoming less OK with lying and they kept asking when I was going to meet a nice christian girl and settle down. I finally told them. They suggested I contact Exodus International. The last card I got from them told me how they were upset that I'm living with Satan and that they pray for me every day. Had I come out in high school, it would have not have been a pleasant experience for me. Not surprisingly, several of my classmates were gay as well - I ran into them after we'd all left our small town and moved to Seattle. You'll find lots of gays there from Alaska, Montana and Idaho as well - they're not exactly accepting locales. Many never came out in their home communities - especially not in school - for fear of being harassed.
* A friend was outted by his evangelical christian girlfriend after repeated attempts by her to get him to put out (which was never brought up btw) and wound up leaving home after said girlfriend spilled the beans to his grandmother, who told the church pastor, who brought him up in front of the entire congregation so everyone could surround him and pray for the demon inside of him to be cast out. No, I'm not kidding, I wish I were.
* My father worked on a small town police force who routinely made disparaging remarks about gays (though they rarely used terms that kind). This is not uncommon, even in major metro police departments.

It's still not uncommon to be called all manner of names, watch people's visible revulsion and to be treated differently as soon as your outted - even in places like SF. Again, this is something you know absolutely nothing about. You're white, heterosexual, christian and male so of course there's nothing for you to fear from the authorities. You think the police are your friends and that they're there to protect and serve. It's true - for you, but not for everyone. Forty years after Stonewall, a bar in Fort Worth was raided because... it was a gay bar and "those faggots had it coming".

Here's another tidbit from everyone's favorite source:

On February 15, 2009 in New York City Efosa Agbontaen and Branden McGillvery-Dummett were attacked by four young men with glass bottles and box cutters who used anti-gay slurs during the attack. Agbontaen and McGillvery-Dummett both required emergency room treatment for their injuries.
On February 18, 2009 two men were arrested in Stroudsburg, PA for the stabbing death of gay veteran Michael Goucher.
On March 1, 2009 in Galveston, Texas three men entered Roberts Lafitte bar and attacked patrons with rocks. One of the victims, Marc Bosaw, was sent to the emergency room to have twelve staples in his head.
On March 14, 2009 a gay couple leaving a concert in Newark, New Jersey were attacked by 15 teens. Josh Kehoe and Bobby Daniel Caldwell were called "faggots" and beaten. Caldwell suffered a broken jaw.
On March 23, 2009 in Seaside, Oregon two gay men were attacked and left lying unconscious on a local beach. The men regained consciousness and were treated at a nearby hospital.
On April 6, 2009, Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover, an 11 year old boy in Springfield, Massachusetts, hanged himself with an extension cord after being bullied all school year by his peers. His peers said he "acted feminine" and was gay.
On April 11, 2009 a gay man in Gloucester, Massachusetts was attacked and beaten by as many as six people outside a bar. Justin Goodwin, 36, of Salem suffered a shattered jaw, broken eye socket, broken nose and broken cheek bone.
On June 30, 2009, Seaman August Provost was found shot to death and his body burned at his guard post on Camp Pendleton. LGBT community leaders "citing military sources initially said that Provost’s death was a hate crime."Provost had been harassed because of his sexual orientation.[189] Military leaders have since explained that "whatever the investigation concludes, the military’s “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy prevented Provost from seeking help."[189] Family and friends believe he was murdered because he was openly gay; the killer committed suicide a week later after admitting the murder, the Navy have not concluded if this was a hate crime.

These are just the incidents from this year.

Last edited by robco (2009-09-30 7:55 pm)

This isn't a subject I'd expect you to understand.



Even if this guy had a legal duty to report this (an admission by a 15-year-old that they had consensual sex with an unknown person), the punishment for failing to do so would be a misdemeanor most likely punished by a small fine.

The student did not make an outcry of abuse.  The sexual partner at issue was not a family member, teacher, or other authority figure.  That makes it an extremely tough call.

Great, so when it happens again you've just ensured that every gay child who is in a similar situation won't tell anyone.

bratboy wrote:

This isn't a subject I'd expect you to understand.



Even if this guy had a legal duty to report this (an admission by a 15-year-old that they had consensual sex with an unknown person), the punishment for failing to do so would be a misdemeanor most likely punished by a small fine.

The student did not make an outcry of abuse.  The sexual partner at issue was not a family member, teacher, or other authority figure.  That makes it an extremely tough call.

Let me explain to you what I do understand.

Any adult who seeks a 15 year old child as a sexual partner has a screw loose, that's a very big danger sign.
That's what I do understand. Do you?

radarman wrote:

You guys can't possibly be serious. You think someone should knowingly allow an adult to abuse or molest a child just to keep the kid in the closet?

Point out the part where that happened:

And I said, "Brewster, what are you doing in there asleep?" And he said, "Well, I'm tired." And I said, "Well, we all are tired and we all got to school today." And he said, "Well, I was out late last night." And I said, "What were you doing out late on a school night?" And he said, "Well, I was in Boston." Boston was about 45 minutes from Concord. So I said, "What were you doing in Boston on a school night, Brewster?" He got very quiet, and he finally looked at me and said, "Well, I met somebody in the bus station bathroom and I went home with him." High school sophomore, 15 years old. That was the only way he knew how to meet gay people. I was a closeted gay teacher, 24 years old, didn't know what to say. Knew I should say something quickly, so I finally -- my best friend had just died of AIDS the week before -- I looked at Brewster and said, "You know, I hope you knew to use a condom." He said to me something I will never forget. He said "Why should I, my life isn't worth saving anyway.”

robco wrote:

You're assuming the adult in question knew the kid was only 15. One generally doesn't ask for ID when hooking up. If the kid is actively seeking sex, is s/he a victim of molestation? It's not really clear. It's "rape" because legally the minor is legally unable to consent, but that isn't the same as saying no.

You're assuming that there was an adult, an unsupported assumption.

resedit wrote:

Let me explain to you what I do understand.

Any adult who seeks a 15 year old child as a sexual partner has a screw loose, that's a very big danger sign.
That's what I do understand. Do you?

It's a smurfy situation--you have a student confiding in you about an activity they voluntarily engaged in.  I seriously doubt punishing the student by outing him would have done much if anything to punish his anonymous sex partner.

resedit wrote:

So you have a kid who has clear self esteem issue, the exact type of kid sexual predators seek, suicidal statements like that may even be a warning sign that something took place the kid didn't want to take place, and he keeps it quiet.

I hear that the best way to deal with suicidal gay youth is to report their sexual activity to the police.

What a real American Hero!

I didn't see anyone calling him a "hero," only sympathizing with the difficult situation.