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Farewell change, we hardly knew ye.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Imagine if all that propagandizing went to looking after people.

Yah, it would've paid for two MRI's and a wart removal.

I haven't followed the details of the "trigger" [backdoor] public option.  That's still likely ?

I hope this gets put back in during reconciliation. I'm not sure Pelosi will kowtow to the administration on this issue. It may make Obama look bad, but if we get this lukewarm "reform" bill, he already looks bad. The GOP understands that they can still shape critical legislation even though they're in the minority. The Dems will cave on any principle in the name of bipartisanship.

I'm going to be writing my Senators and Speaker Pelosi (she's my Rep) and encouraging them to hold the line on this. Progressives have been told not-so-politely to sit down and shut the smurf up during this process. That needs to stop and it needs to stop now.

Obama needs to step up and lead and another speech isn't going to do the job. He needs to show he has substance, or he'll wind up another Carter.

robco wrote:

The Dems will cave on any principle in the name of bipartisanship.

smurf bipartisanship. The Republicans have been giving it up the ass to regular folks for far too long. It's time for them to take one in the stinker.

Funny, during the primaries I looked at the candidates' health care plans, assuming that they were at all relevant. Little did I know that the important thing would be "what does Max Baucus think?"

I know that there was essentially no difference among Obama, Clinton, and Edwards's plans. I supported Obama because I thought that his charisma and strong progressive support would let him cajole, persuade, and strongarm Congress into passing something approximating his campaign plan.

Instead, his plan is totally irrelevant to what the most insurance company bribed member of Congress wants.

If DADT is in effect in 2012, there is no goddamn way I'm voting for another term for Spineless Democratic Executive Mark II.

You mean for 2010 ??

Here's a big part of the problem.
Obama doesn't want the plan to go into effect until 2013 - conveniently after the Presidential re-election.
Yet for a plan that they want to delay going into effect, they want to pass it as quickly as possible.

That's a warning sign to the American People. Why doesn't he want health care reform to go into effect until after his re-election attempt?
To me it says he knows there's a good chance it will be a monumental failure, he wants to use passing it to get re-elected w/o the possible consequences.

He also needs to do something about Iran. They making a fool out of him.

And the way he is handling Iran is pissing many off.
He is not willing to meet with the right on health care but he's willing to go meet with a government that denies the holocaust and says they want Israel gone, a country that has called us the great Satan. What kind of message do you think that sends?

If the left wants to keep up it's election success, those are issues Obama has to address.

robco wrote:

Exactly.

As stated, the public option isn't done yet. The Senate Finance Committee will not have it in their bill. It doesn't mean that a Senate bill won't have it. They also have to reconcile the Senate version with the House version and the House version will most definitely have it. It's time for the party leadership to get the DINOs in line.

Do you really think for a minute the insurance and hospital lobbies are going to allow Congress to pass a public option? Those idiots can't go to the toilet without asking permission from some corporate interest.
It doesn't matter how many Americans wanted it, because the average American doesn't pay the bills for elections - and that's all that really matters.

resedit wrote:

You mean for 2010 ??

Here's a big part of the problem.
Obama doesn't want the plan to go into effect until 2013 - conveniently after the Presidential re-election.
Yet for a plan that they want to delay going into effect, they want to pass it as quickly as possible.

That's a warning sign to the American People. Why doesn't he want health care reform to go into effect until after his re-election attempt?
To me it says he knows there's a good chance it will be a monumental failure, he wants to use passing it to get re-elected w/o the possible consequences.

He also needs to do something about Iran. They making a fool out of him.

And the way he is handling Iran is pissing many off.
He is not willing to meet with the right on health care but he's willing to go meet with a government that denies the holocaust and says they want Israel gone, a country that has called us the great Satan. What kind of message do you think that sends?

If the left wants to keep up it's election success, those are issues Obama has to address.

I have just never understood the whole "you don't talk to bad guys" idea that some one the right have.

Tallgeese wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

I wish I understood the thinking behind handing the whole thing over to Congress to fix. I knew with the same certainty that I knew Iraq was going to be a disaster that real health care reform wasn't going to happen.

Basic civics. Congress writes laws.

You know what I meant.

Didn't Hillary get burned by going behind closed doors to give to Congress birthed whole?

That's the only rationale I can see.

However, I'm reminded about fighting the last battle...

robco wrote:

Exactly.

As stated, the public option isn't done yet. The Senate Finance Committee will not have it in their bill. It doesn't mean that a Senate bill won't have it. They also have to reconcile the Senate version with the House version and the House version will most definitely have it. It's time for the party leadership to get the DINOs in line.

Also, I'd like a unicorn.