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Bat · 2009-10-08 1:40 pm

Local representatives with close links to military say they feel abandoned

BAGHDAD (WP) - Weeks after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in the spring of 2003, as parts of the capital were still smoldering, American soldiers and diplomats turned to men like Hassan Shama and Omar Rahman Rahmani in their quest to plant the seeds of representative democracy.

In Baghdad, Iraq's capital, they held impromptu neighborhood caucuses to appoint district and neighborhood advisory councils. The local government bodies were given no official charter, lawmaking power or public budget. In the years that followed, as the capital became a bloody battleground and the country descended into near-anarchy, council members were among the U.S. military's staunchest allies. They provided information about extremists, offered insight into Iraqi society and gave American-imposed security measures a veneer of Iraqi legitimacy.

As U.S. troops have sharply disengaged from Baghdad in recent months, local representatives say they are feeling powerless and abandoned. The Iraqi government has taken no steps to hold elections for the councils, and the Baghdad provincial council is culling them of members it deems unqualified or unfit for service.

The looming demise of the local councils — at least as the Americans established them — is an ominous sign of the brand of democracy that is likely to reign in Iraq as the Americans depart, council members say. They worry that constituents will no longer have grass-roots representation and that power will become far more centralized in the hands of a few.

'Spies for the Americans'
Council members, who in recent years became top targets of insurgents, are among a growing number of Iraqis who feel that the impending American pullout will leave them exposed and helpless.

"I never expected we'd come to this point," said Shama, the head of the Sadr City District Council. "The U.S. Army and the U.S. Embassy have abandoned us. After six years of very hard work, we're worthless. They call us agents, spies for the Americans."

Looks like Western-style democracy just isn't taking hold in the region, whatever Perle, W. et al were hoping/ planning on/ taking us to war for.

ShnickyShnack · 2009-10-08 1:43 pm

Did we expect anything different?

Hopefully there won't be a nationwide massacre of these people.

Bat · 2009-10-08 1:50 pm

I didn't, you didn't; I suspect at least some of them did.

Time to pay the piper; echo on the massacre angle.

ShnickyShnack · 2009-10-08 2:11 pm

No doubt everyone in America will wash their hands of whatever happens after the pullout, as happened with Vietnam.

robco · 2009-10-08 2:44 pm

Would you rather US troops remain in Iraq indefinitely?

radarman · 2009-10-08 2:46 pm

ShnickyShnack wrote:
No doubt everyone in America will wash their hands of whatever happens after the pullout, as happened with Vietnam.

What would be the alternative? The place is going to go to hell in a handbasket when leave. It doesn't matter if we leave tomorrow, or ten years from now. Personally, I'd prefer tomorrow.

D'Eyncourt · 2009-10-08 3:06 pm

Will the last helicopter out of Baghdad please turn off the lights?

ShnickyShnack · 2009-10-08 3:07 pm

radarman wrote:
ShnickyShnack wrote:
No doubt everyone in America will wash their hands of whatever happens after the pullout, as happened with Vietnam.
What would be the alternative? The place is going to go to hell in a handbasket when leave. It doesn't matter if we leave tomorrow, or ten years from now. Personally, I'd prefer tomorrow.

I agree. I just wish I didn't have to feel like once that happens, no one in the States will give a smurf about the aftermath.

radarman · 2009-10-08 3:08 pm

ShnickyShnack wrote:
radarman wrote:
ShnickyShnack wrote:
No doubt everyone in America will wash their hands of whatever happens after the pullout, as happened with Vietnam.
What would be the alternative? The place is going to go to hell in a handbasket when leave. It doesn't matter if we leave tomorrow, or ten years from now. Personally, I'd prefer tomorrow.
I agree. I just wish I didn't have to feel like once that happens, no one in the States will give a smurf about the aftermath.

No one in the US gives a smurf now, the odds of anyone caring about the aftermath are about the same as Kanye West being invited to host an award show.

daemon · 2009-10-08 3:51 pm

Hey!

I give a smurf. About how the fark soon we get out.

Besides, that Embassy is enough to hold the collaborators. U.S. can pay for security for em.

KBR or Blackwater (Xe) will be glad to have the contract.

radarman · 2009-10-08 3:56 pm

daemon wrote:
Hey!

I give a smurf. About how the fark soon we get out.

Besides, that Embassy is enough to hold the collaborators. U.S. can pay for security for em.

KBR or Blackwater (Xe) will be glad to have the contract.

Nah, do it like they did at the end of Vietnam. Fly out the people who helped out, and head for home without looking back. I just hope Iraqi's aren't trying to storm the embassy while this is going on.

robco · 2009-10-08 4:02 pm

I give a smurf about the aftermath, I'm just not sure what can be done about it. We can stay to try and keep things together and keep bloodshed to a minimum, but that's about it.

Pariah · 2009-10-08 4:46 pm

They worry that constituents will no longer have grass-roots representation and that power will become far more centralized in the hands of a few.

In other words an American style government.

Jokotai · 2009-10-08 4:52 pm

Pariah wrote:
They worry that constituents will no longer have grass-roots representation and that power will become far more centralized in the hands of a few.
In other words an American style government.

Isn't that what we went in there to instill? Imperialism without all of the hassles of remote government?

Pariah · 2009-10-08 5:47 pm

Jokotai wrote:
Pariah wrote:
They worry that constituents will no longer have grass-roots representation and that power will become far more centralized in the hands of a few.
In other words an American style government.
Isn't that what we went in there to instill? Imperialism without all of the hassles of remote government?

What we will end up with is a country much like Iran with a show government and the real power will rest in the hands of a bunch of clerics. That's the best case scenario.
The mostly likely scenario is that Iraq will be fractured into several, bickering ethnic regions in a state of constant conflict and disorder.

daemon · 2009-10-23 4:06 am

J-F-C!

I've never heard such an explicit argument for 'Blood-For-Oil' in public:

T. Boone Pickens told Congress on Wednesday that U.S. energy companies are “entitled” to some of Iraq’s crude because of the large number of American troops that lost their lives fighting in the country and the U.S. taxpayer money spent in Iraq.

Boone, speaking to the newly formed Congressional Natural Gas Caucus, complained that the Iraqi government has awarded contracts to foreign companies, particularly Chinese firms, to develop Iraq’s vast reserves while American companies have mostly been shut out.

“They’re opening them (oil fields) up to other companies all over the world … We’re entitled to it,” Pickens said of Iraq’s oil. “Heck, we even lost 5,000 of our people, 65,000 injured and a trillion, five hundred billion dollars.”

via thinkprogress

mom (So much "wow" it gets upsidedown and backwards)

Last edited by daemon (2009-10-23 4:29 am)

Ribtorus · 2009-10-23 6:24 am

daemon wrote:
J-F-C!

I've never heard such an explicit argument for 'Blood-For-Oil' in public:

T. Boone Pickens told Congress on Wednesday that U.S. energy companies are “entitled” to some of Iraq’s crude because of the large number of American troops that lost their lives fighting in the country and the U.S. taxpayer money spent in Iraq.

Boone, speaking to the newly formed Congressional Natural Gas Caucus, complained that the Iraqi government has awarded contracts to foreign companies, particularly Chinese firms, to develop Iraq’s vast reserves while American companies have mostly been shut out.

“They’re opening them (oil fields) up to other companies all over the world … We’re entitled to it,” Pickens said of Iraq’s oil. “Heck, we even lost 5,000 of our people, 65,000 injured and a trillion, five hundred billion dollars.”
via thinkprogress

mom (So much "wow" it gets upsidedown and backwards)

Oh yeah. How about this headline in The London Times from 2002

"West Sees Glittering Prizes Ahead in Giant Oilfields"
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0711-02.htm

user · 2009-10-23 7:16 am

Mama always told me not to expect a reward when I volunteered to release a nation of people from an evil oppressor....

D'Eyncourt · 2009-10-23 1:07 pm

daemon wrote:
J-F-C!

I've never heard such an explicit argument for 'Blood-For-Oil' in public:

T. Boone Pickens told Congress on Wednesday that U.S. energy companies are “entitled” to some of Iraq’s crude because of the large number of American troops that lost their lives fighting in the country and the U.S. taxpayer money spent in Iraq.

Boone, speaking to the newly formed Congressional Natural Gas Caucus, complained that the Iraqi government has awarded contracts to foreign companies, particularly Chinese firms, to develop Iraq’s vast reserves while American companies have mostly been shut out.

“They’re opening them (oil fields) up to other companies all over the world … We’re entitled to it,” Pickens said of Iraq’s oil. “Heck, we even lost 5,000 of our people, 65,000 injured and a trillion, five hundred billion dollars.”
via thinkprogress

mom (So much "wow" it gets upsidedown and backwards)

mom, indeed.

BTW: source.

Forums | MacLife

#1 2009-10-08 1:40 pm

'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#2 2009-10-08 1:43 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#3 2009-10-08 1:50 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#4 2009-10-08 2:11 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#5 2009-10-08 2:44 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#6 2009-10-08 2:46 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

ShnickyShnack wrote:

#7 2009-10-08 3:06 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#8 2009-10-08 3:07 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

radarman wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

#9 2009-10-08 3:08 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

ShnickyShnack wrote:

radarman wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

#10 2009-10-08 3:51 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#11 2009-10-08 3:56 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

daemon wrote:

#12 2009-10-08 4:02 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#13 2009-10-08 4:46 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#14 2009-10-08 4:52 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

Pariah wrote:

#15 2009-10-08 5:47 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

Jokotai wrote:

Pariah wrote:

#16 2009-10-23 4:06 am

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#17 2009-10-23 6:24 am

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

daemon wrote:

#18 2009-10-23 7:16 am

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

#19 2009-10-23 1:07 pm

Re: 'Iraqis on U.S.-created councils fear pullout'

daemon wrote:

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