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radarman wrote:

I was driving back home yesterday, and saw a billboard on the side of the road that read

"Obamacare will kill us all - write your congressman or senator" and gave the link to some website.

I was doing about 75 at the time, so I didn't get a picture, but I suspect it fits nicely in the local landscape. Insurance companies are working double time to get Americans to reject health care reform. The obvious question is why. Of course, that would require some critical reasoning skills.

If only you'd had a paintball gun and 5 minutes to stop...

Update: More fear mongering ... insurers say health care system will "collapse" if Obama has his way

At issue are what insurance companies consider absurdly low penalties for people who choose not to buy health insurance.

Their concern: People will buy insurance only when they desperately need it, such as after they're diagnosed with cancer or heart disease.

Healthy people might choose to pay the penalty, now proposed at a few hundred dollars per year, because it is far less expensive than buying insurance.

Wow, just wow. I'd probably pay the penalty just out of principle. It's also funny (well, not really) that the insurance companies tend to find any excuse to drop people after... they're diagnosed with cancer or heart disease. But I will admit that I want to see a strong public option because it is a potential method to bring about single payer.

I was once charged $75 for 1 gram of Tylenol while uninsured.  Fun times.

robco wrote:

Insurance companies are businesses and are making business decisions - as are hospitals and providers. We need a system of health care organizations making health care decisions.

What if the health care organizations were a collaborative group of NFP's?

Ribtorus wrote:

Perhaps the collapse of private health insurers is a goal and hitting them with unsustainable obligations is the hammer.

The Left's version of "starve the beast".

robco wrote:

Well Medicare is certainly headed for trouble...

According to this
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/06 … -insurers/
medicare denies more claims than private insurance.

Jokotai wrote:

Medicare also has the problem of products and services being billed directly to them in a predatory fashion.  These companies convince the elderly that they need a power chair, and not just any power chair, but their power chair, and will gladly bill Medicare on their behalf.  Notice those commercials never talk about how much they're charging Medicare for the chairs, especially since a common part of these advertisements is that the company will cover the costs if Medicare denies the claim, thus Medicare winds up paying for them anyways because of the inflated cost.  That means thousands upon thousands of unnecessary power chairs that Medicare has to pay for.

In all fairness, for a lot of seniors, those chairs are a big deal. I have no doubt they are absurdly expensive for what you get, but it's not like they are totally useless. For someone with arthritis, or simply weak muscles, it's the difference between laying in bed or on the couch, and getting around.

radarman wrote:

Jokotai wrote:

Medicare also has the problem of products and services being billed directly to them in a predatory fashion.  These companies convince the elderly that they need a power chair, and not just any power chair, but their power chair, and will gladly bill Medicare on their behalf.  Notice those commercials never talk about how much they're charging Medicare for the chairs, especially since a common part of these advertisements is that the company will cover the costs if Medicare denies the claim, thus Medicare winds up paying for them anyways because of the inflated cost.  That means thousands upon thousands of unnecessary power chairs that Medicare has to pay for.

In all fairness, for a lot of seniors, those chairs are a big deal. I have no doubt they are absurdly expensive for what you get, but it's not like they are totally useless. For someone with arthritis, or simply weak muscles, it's the difference between laying in bed or on the couch, and getting around.

The problem is that they aren't representing their product responsibly.  Yes, there are those that need them.  There are also those that would rather get around without the possibility of their feet getting tired.  These companies don't distinguish between the two, they're just after the sale.

Farmerkev wrote:

robco wrote:

Well Medicare is certainly headed for trouble...

According to this
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/06 … -insurers/
medicare denies more claims than private insurance.

The article doesn't mention fraud, a big problem with Medicare. They also neglect to mention that Medicare is by far the nation's largest insurer. Their numbers are going to be higher.

Last edited by robco (2009-10-20 12:47 pm)

Jokotai wrote:

radarman wrote:

Jokotai wrote:

Medicare also has the problem of products and services being billed directly to them in a predatory fashion.  These companies convince the elderly that they need a power chair, and not just any power chair, but their power chair, and will gladly bill Medicare on their behalf.  Notice those commercials never talk about how much they're charging Medicare for the chairs, especially since a common part of these advertisements is that the company will cover the costs if Medicare denies the claim, thus Medicare winds up paying for them anyways because of the inflated cost.  That means thousands upon thousands of unnecessary power chairs that Medicare has to pay for.

In all fairness, for a lot of seniors, those chairs are a big deal. I have no doubt they are absurdly expensive for what you get, but it's not like they are totally useless. For someone with arthritis, or simply weak muscles, it's the difference between laying in bed or on the couch, and getting around.

The problem is that they aren't representing their product responsibly.  Yes, there are those that need them.  There are also those that would rather get around without the possibility of their feet getting tired.  These companies don't distinguish between the two, they're just after the sale.

Those chairs could be made better, sturdier, lighter, smaller and just about everything else.

Think about what goes into manufacturing a good bicycle, $1500 - $2000 will get you a 17 lb wonder machine with Ultegra hubs, Mavic or similar quality hoops, an 853 steel frame (or aluminum or carbon fiber if you so choose) I postulate that manual wheelchairs could weigh 25 pounds, motorized ones could come in at under 40, and be manufactured and delivered to people in need for between $2000 and $4,000 dollars.

Stack that up against what Medicare is being forced to reimburse for because of sweetheart deals with manufacturers who make what is basically crap.

The hugely ignored part of health care reform is the issue that government in other countries tells these manufacturers and providers what they can charge.

So how much is that MRI machine?

Perhaps this?

Maybe this?

How much is the procedure?

Perhaps a second opinion?

Ohhh, my goodness, look at that. . .

Wow. . .

Farmerkev wrote:

robco wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

According to this
http://healthcare-economist.com/2008/06 … -insurers/
medicare denies more claims than private insurance.

The article doesn't mention fraud, a big problem with Medicare. They also neglect to mention that Medicare is by far the nation's largest insurer. Their numbers are going to be higher.

The number is given as a percentage.

That sure is a nice blog post you have there. Nice of him to do all the analysis for us. No need to look at the actual numbers or indeed the article he was referring to. Trust him, he's on the Internet!

Farmerkev wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Farmerkev wrote:

The number is given as a percentage.

That sure is a nice blog post you have there. Nice of him to do all the analysis for us. No need to look at the actual numbers or indeed the article he was referring to. Trust him, he's on the Internet!

Then you go and prove his numbers wrong and make him look foolish.
I'll wait.

While you're waiting, feel free to visit the only place this story seems to appear, on right-wing pro-corporate blogs. Then you can come back with more unattributed factoids!