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#1 2009-10-15 9:15 pm
New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
Sheriff says sweat lodge deaths were not accidental.
A woman identified as Barb told the callers that a channeler at the retreat last Friday said the deceased had an out-of-body experience during the sweat lodge ceremony and "were having so much fun that they chose not to come back."
Oh, OK, well, I guess that explains everything.
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
--Steve Jobs
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#2 2009-10-15 9:23 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
"We find it offensive that anyone would classify their death as a choice," McFeeley said. "We don't believe she chose to suffocate in a sweat lodge. We don't think she chose to fast for 36 hours without food or water and then have improper nutritional care. She did not choose to have improper medical care on site."
Actually, she probably did choose all those things.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#3 2009-10-15 9:38 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
I wouldn't put it on the victim's shoulders that there wasn't adequate medical care on-site. Nor would I fault them for not understanding the perils of getting into a sauna while dehydrated. Lots of people make that sort of mistake. The blame for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the New Age guru who organized and led this "retreat."
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
--Steve Jobs
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#5 2009-10-15 9:46 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
There is a certain rush associated with near death that can be mistaken for a spiritual experience, and some people specifically seek it. I don't know why they seek it, but as long as they are adults and not endangering others, they should be allowed to.
Last edited by resedit (2009-10-15 9:47 pm)
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#6 2009-10-15 9:52 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
I think it's like bartenders. Ultimately, if someone drinks themselves to death, it's on them. However, bartenders are required by law to stop serving someone who looks dangerously intoxicated.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#7 2009-10-15 10:00 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
First of all, I don't think the stated intent of this sweat-lodge retreat was to induce near-death experiences. Secondly, I think it's presuming too much to say that NDE's are not, in fact, spiritual experiences.
Lastly, unless you've ever participated in something culty or self-helpy (I have), you may not fully understand just how easy it is for the leaders of such experiences to, well, lead you in directions you perhaps shouldn't go.
The guy running this event had an obligation to provide a safe environment for its participants. He clearly failed to do that.
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
--Steve Jobs
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#9 2009-10-16 9:23 am
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
the lodge get a signed release that the return trip may be cancelled at anytime during the trip?
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#10 2009-10-16 9:31 am
- Pithecanthropus
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
resedit wrote:
There is a certain rush associated with near death that can be mistaken for a spiritual experience...
Careful there, that's some mighty thin ice you're skating on.
Grandfatherly advice: You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.
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#11 2009-10-16 10:00 am
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
Pithecanthropus wrote:
resedit wrote:
There is a certain rush associated with near death that can be mistaken for a spiritual experience...
Careful there, that's some mighty thin ice you're skating on.
I think it is scientifically documented.
Some chemical that gets released in the brain that gives a high.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#12 2009-10-16 12:25 pm
- Pithecanthropus
- Roast Master
- From: St. Cloud, MN
- Registered: 2002-12-30
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
I mean about you labeling it a "mistake." I don't think you get to judge what another person accepts as a "spiritual experience."
A spiritual experience can be anything from whirling like a Dervish to tantric sex, and is about what the individual gets from it. If a person gets a "spiritual experience" from being near death, I don't think you can call it a mistake.
Grandfatherly advice: You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.
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#13 2009-10-16 1:54 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
If one accepts the premise that we are spirits in bodies, it would follow that every experience we have is spiritual, because it's spirits who are doing the experiencing.
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
--Steve Jobs
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#14 2009-10-16 3:52 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
Pithecanthropus wrote:
I mean about you labeling it a "mistake." I don't think you get to judge what another person accepts as a "spiritual experience."
Happens to me all the time minithink.
Freedom of speech gives me the right to make that judgment.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#15 2009-10-17 1:48 pm
- Pithecanthropus
- Roast Master
- From: St. Cloud, MN
- Registered: 2002-12-30
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
Cop out. Try a little empathy.
Grandfatherly advice: You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.
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#16 2009-10-17 1:51 pm
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
Pithecanthropus wrote:
Cop out. Try a little empathy.
What the smurf are you talking about?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#17 2009-10-17 4:43 pm
- Pithecanthropus
- Roast Master
- From: St. Cloud, MN
- Registered: 2002-12-30
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Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
You said, "There is a certain rush associated with near death that can be mistaken for a spiritual experience..."
I take issue with you labeling the spiritual experience that someone might have as a "mistake." You are defining what another person sees as their own personal spiritual experience, are you not? You are calling it a mistake, unless I am seriously misunderstanding you. I don't think that's fair, although you are right in saying that you have every right to do so.
My point is that a person who has a near death experience can have a genuine spiritual experience, and that neither you or I can judge whether it is indeed genuine or a "mistake." I maintain that it is completely up to the individual who had the experience to define it.
If I'm off base on this, I apologize.
Grandfatherly advice: You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.
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#18 2009-10-20 1:17 am
Re: New Age Ninnies and Negligent Homicide
I've found a blog which includes a screen shot of the Tweets which James A. Ray had posted prior to and during his "Spiritual Warrior" event, Tweets which he hastily deleted in an effort to cover his tracks after the people died. All the talk of death is quite ironic:
Beyond Growth blog
One of the blogger's observations was the following:
When something goes wrong in such a seminar due to it being overly intense and dangerous, usually the victims are blamed for “not taking 100% responsibility,” thus dodging the responsibility of the seminar leaders.
This rings true for me. I can recall one such event that I participated in, which was done by a group who'd had bad publicity regarding their supposed cultiness and physical or psychological problems allegedly suffered by a few participants in the past. During the first hour of the first day, the group leader made a big deal of asking whether we could be "completely responsible" for ourselves, and encouraging us to leave if we could not honestly answer "yes."
The kicker is that he left it to each of us to individually interpret what being completely responsible for ourselves actually meant.
Last edited by Bren (2009-10-20 1:18 am)
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
--Steve Jobs
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