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#1 2009-10-21 11:07 am

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9599

Deleted Posts in MiniThink

Admins are deleting posts in MiniThink.

Its coming across as very arbitrary and opaque.

MiniThink often has topics go very off topic.  Also has many posts that add absolutely nothing to the original or current-page-8-topic.

Now posts are disappearing.  The reasons aren't given.  This is an issue not to complain why a post was removed, but the uncertainty of if a new post will be vanished. 

In addition, some people's posts appear much more likely to be deleted than others.  Again, lack of transparency makes it feel arbitrary.



MiniThink has been a jungle, that's fine, few rules.  Mods being obviously unreasonable, and engaging in profane attacks on posters has been seen.  If a new style of rule enforcement is in place, its not being communicated well, nor is it very even.

This post started with 13 sentences, including this one.  wink


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#2 2009-10-21 11:11 am

mrreet2001
Member
From: NW Ohio
Registered: 2005-05-25
Posts: 4326
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

from the minithink rules

The Don’t Be A Jerk rule includes the following parts.

1. Civility in your posts towards other posters. In plain language that means don’t call people names.

2. Addressing the argument in your posts, not attacking the other poster. In plain language that means if you aren’t going to respond to a poster's argument, and are instead going to post a passive-aggressive insult, don’t post.

If you want to fall to the low standards of Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh, then get your own TV show.

Posts that don’t meet this standard will be moderated.

Also users can delete their own posts.

Last edited by mrreet2001 (2009-10-21 11:12 am)


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#3 2009-10-21 11:13 am

bedstuy
Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
From: King Cole Bar, St. Regis Hotel
Registered: 2003-09-20
Posts: 13620

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

I'm gotten lectures privately about calling politicians names. confused

Last edited by bedstuy (2009-10-21 11:17 am)

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#4 2009-10-21 11:20 am

mrreet2001
Member
From: NW Ohio
Registered: 2005-05-25
Posts: 4326
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

I have gotten lectured over things I think a trivial too ... but it's the mod's rules or leave... and I would prefer to stay.

shrug


2.66Ghz QuadCore-Nehalem w/24"LED CD ---2.2Ghz BlackMB---15" 2.4Ghz MBP(work)
Dual 2.3Ghz G5 (4G Ram, 2x 250G HD)(10.5 server)--- 400Mhz G4 PM (10.4 Server)
1.5GHz Powerbook---1.6Ghz G5 iMac
"So he fels down in a poisoning gas."

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#5 2009-10-21 11:21 am

Alien
Forum Czar
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16939
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

Posts are being (re)moved if we feel they violate the rules. That mostly means not addressing arguments, but resorting to namecalling.

As I'm sick and tired of giving up my or my employer's time to edit a string of posts into something resembling a discussion rather than a shouting match, such posts are removed whole. Perhaps losing the fruits of their labour will make people think twice about inserting snide comments directed at other posters into their argumentations. I sure hope so.

All this is being done with the idea that Minithink is a place for discussion of political and religious subjects, not a dumping ground where people get to insult others at will.

.tsooJ


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#6 2009-10-21 11:22 am

Alien
Forum Czar
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16939
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

And as always, everyone feels they are being treated unfairly compared to others. This is not surprising: basic computer game theory tells us that if we make a computer play 100% fair, the human player will feel as if it's cheating. That's just how our minds work.

I repeat: no posts have been removed for their political content.

.tsooJ


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#7 2009-10-21 11:32 am

IcarusFountain
Damned Portals!
Royal Wombat
From: Stuck in 1 Infinite Loop
Registered: 2003-12-27
Posts: 6253
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

JakeTheTall wrote:

Admins are deleting posts in MiniThink.
[...]
This post started with 13 sentences, including this one.  wink

And if your post was deleted, how would we know?

I think Alien covered this one well enough.  I think what the problem has been is that we have posted rules, and people have (intentionally or not) disregarded them.  It seems like, in the last several years, mods have been relatively lax on enforcement of the rules.  However, this doesn't constitute a change in the purpose of MT, nor of its rules.  If enforcement begins to happen again, it isn't some dark conspiracy.  It's just the cycle of "let's keep order -> let's give them some leniency -> there's been too much leniency" renewing.

Or maybe my rotting wombat brain is completely off-topic.

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#8 2009-10-21 11:36 am

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9599

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

I don't want to be a mod, myself.  Talk about thankless work.

But there's so much in MiniThink that could reasonably be modded out, and isn't.


Perhaps I'm too thick-skinned, but I don't see any posts in MiniThink that are egregiously offensive or rule breaking.

I can be mocking and snide.  But after seeing a stream of ignorance to the point its indistinguishable from trolling, its hard not to assume there's little reason to be decent in a response.  Which I kinda like.  Lets everyone get a feel for personalities and attitudes.

I deeply value MiniThink, for the semi-tragic reason that my peer group / colleagues are mostly homogeneous, and don't reflect many socio-economic groups that make up America.  (read: everyone I know are affluent, college-educated West Coasters)


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#9 2009-10-21 11:40 am

bedstuy
Archimandrite, Eastern Elite
From: King Cole Bar, St. Regis Hotel
Registered: 2003-09-20
Posts: 13620

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

JakeTheTall wrote:

but I don't see any posts in MiniThink that are egregiously offensive or rule breaking.

Hard to tell when they vanish, n'est-ce pas?

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#10 2009-10-21 11:40 am

Alien
Forum Czar
Administrator
From: Republic of Amsterdam
Registered: 1999-07-05
Posts: 16939
Website

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

I like political discussion. I also know that it can sometimes drive one completely up the wall. This is the point where one has to step back and think of a constructive argument. Remember, you're not trying to convince your opponent; he's probably as locked in his views as you are. You are persuading the onlookers.

.tsooJ


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#11 2009-10-21 11:40 am

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9599

Re: Deleted Posts in MiniThink

IcarusFountain wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

Admins are deleting posts in MiniThink.
[...]
This post started with 13 sentences, including this one.  wink

And if your post was deleted, how would we know?

I think Alien covered this one well enough.  I think what the problem has been is that we have posted rules, and people have (intentionally or not) disregarded them.  It seems like, in the last several years, mods have been relatively lax on enforcement of the rules.  However, this doesn't constitute a change in the purpose of MT, nor of its rules.  If enforcement begins to happen again, it isn't some dark conspiracy.  It's just the cycle of "let's keep order -> let's give them some leniency -> there's been too much leniency" renewing.

Or maybe my rotting wombat brain is completely off-topic.

Absolutely, the rule enforcing must rein in incivility.  The trick is that one person's incivility is another's passionate argument.  That, and there were startling lapses in enforcement in the past, of posts that are more obviously rule-breaking.


The recent mod-deleting of posts comes off as very random.


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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