Forums | MacLife

Rumors are that at least Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Gentoo, & Fedora have been made to work.

Ubuntu works. You may want to play with it awhile in a virtual environment before committing. If you want to do so use Sun's Virtualbox.

That way you can decide how to set up and play with it til it is all you want it to be.

And it's Free!

You can run Linux in Boot Camp.

You would have to install a specific Linux OS to run KDE. As for Linux over Unix, Linux is generally free, Unix is not.

Now I'm more confused. I know that I've previously gotten KDE working on my old G3 iBook, right alongside OS X,  without doing any sort of dual-booting, and I don't think there was any virtualization involved. Unless KDE is a virtual environment? It's been quite some time, so I don't  remember for sure all the details.

Also, regarding this thing about Linux being free and Unix not being free: Why should that matter when you already have Unix installed and running as the basis for OS X? Are you saying you can't get tons of free Unix apps like you can with Linux? Or is there just a lack of open-source Unix tweaking possibilities?

So then it's not really Unix as most people understand it?

And what the heck was going on when I had KDE on my iBook? Was I running Linux or Unix? If it was Linux, how was I doing this without virtualization, and without rebooting? I realize you can't answer definitively, 'cause you weren't there, but hopefully somebody else has done this and knows what I'm talking about. I got it all set up using instructions from Mac|Life or MacWorld magazine.

It would definitely have been possible to run KDE inside OS X. KDE is just an application like any other, when it comes down to it.

Given the vintage, I'm guessing it ran within X11.app.
This article http://theappleblog.com/2008/01/25/a-lo … -for-os-x/ talks a little about it, but mostly about a newer 2008 version which completely replaces Finder if you so choose.

I should add that on my Intel iMac, I run Ubuntu within Virtualbox and it's great.   And that's a completely cost-free and non-invasive way to try out some Linux OSes.

dv wrote:

Bren wrote:

So then it's not really Unix as most people understand it?

Right. It's UNIX-like.

No, it's Unix.

UNIX conformance.
Mac OS X Server is an Open Brand UNIX 03 Registered Product, conforming to the SUSv3 and POSIX 1003.1 specifications for the C API, Shell Utilities, and Threads. Since Mac OS X Server can compile and run all your existing UNIX code, you can deploy it in environments that demand full conformance — complete with hooks to maintain compatibility with existing software.

http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/technology/unix.html

And what the heck was going on when I had KDE on my iBook? Was I running Linux or Unix? If it was Linux, how was I doing this without virtualization, and without rebooting? I realize you can't answer definitively, 'cause you weren't there, but hopefully somebody else has done this and knows what I'm talking about. I got it all set up using instructions from Mac|Life or MacWorld magazine.

Well, when I was running Linux on my old PCI powermac, I had to boot into OS 9, then use a launcher utility to launch Linux from there. Getting back into OS 9 required a reboot.

Or you might have been running it in Virtual PC, I guess.

C'mon, it's been four years, are we that forgetful? Several Unix flavours (OpenBSD, NetBSD, FreeBSD) and a plethora of Linux distributions run natively on PowerPC and M68K Macs. Yes, older Macs cannot boot anything but Mac OS and therefore need to load a small Mac OS install to start the bootloader, but Open Firmware/New World models can boot directly into Unix or Linux.

.tsooJ

macnuke wrote:

what benefits do you get running linux over say Mac OS or Win OS with "most" things you need "plug n play" ?

None!   But I have a Toshiba Laptop which I use at work, and it's running Ubuntu 9.04.   I keep a copy of Ubuntu on my iMac at home so I can try out new software or new versions of software before installing them on my work computer. 

I love updating software... so I usually keep my home version of Ubuntu one step ahead of my work version.  Currently my home iMac is running Ubuntu 9.10 Release Candidate in Virtualbox.   When that's officially released, I'll update all my software on the home computer's Ubuntu installation.   If everything goes smoothly at home, then I'll update the work laptop.

Once the work laptop is up to speed with the new stuff, I start upgrading to the next Alpha release at home! 

I'm such a nerd.   But really, nothing is quite as satisfying as clicking the ol' "update" button.

No, X11 is an X window server.

.tsooJ

Bren wrote:

Are you telling me that in this case, Linux would be running alongside OS X without being "contained" to a virtual machine? Is that even possible?

Alien will probably correct me, but I think that is how X11 works. It's required for quite a few ports of open source apps that were originally developed for Unix or Linux.

It takes the system calls that the programs make (like, presumably, how to draw a window) and makes it happen. Rather than having the developer have to re-code for OS X.

So it's not a virtual machine, nor is it a whole OS.

Bren wrote:

So X is not a virtual environment like VMWare or Parallels or Virtual PC, but a whole separate OS (Linux) can be running in it while the Mac is still booted up in OS X?

No.

That's very confusing.

Yes, it would be.

The first question which springs to mind is, how, then, is it not a virtual environment?

It just isn't. You're asking the wrong questions, but mostly because you started from the wrong premises.

Are you telling me that in this case, Linux would be running alongside OS X without being "contained" to a virtual machine?

No.

Is that even possible?

Yes, in a way, but that's outside of the scope of this discussion.

You were running KDE, which is a desktop environment. Basically, it's just an application, as was pointed out earlier. It just offers a heap of services other applications can make use of.

To run KDE, you need a Unix-like OS, like BSD, Linux or in your case, Mac OS X. And you need an X window server, like XFree86 on Linux or in your case, X11.

.tsooJ