Forums | MacLife

From what I understand on how the campaign was run in Maine, what the gay marriage proponents really need to do is to stop playing nice. They got slammed in Maine just like how they were slammed in California: on topics that were completely irrelevant or incorrect about gay marriage. The opponents were slinging accusations like gay marriages were going to be forced upon churches that do not support them (false), that school books were to be changed to include gay marriages (false--heh, like the schools can afford to do that?) and other such plain falsehoods that riled up the mostly conservative (as in reluctant to change) population. It did not matter that there were state officials who made statements to counter those ads--the damage was done.

Perhaps the proponents should take advantage of that outsider prejudice: [cue dire music] "The Mormons are trying to change our state laws. The Church of Latter-Day Saints has poured millions of dollars into our state spreading lies about gay marriage like they did in California and in Maine--don't you be fooled!"

Why this isn't a 14th Amendment issue is beyond me...

Nah, it's not early, it's just retarded to settle civil rights issues with popular votes.

I've yet to hear a coherent and cogent explanation about why same-sex marriage hurts marriage.

The arguments fly all around that, yet never touch the subject.

And since it's a secular law we are discussing, the moment you mention your religious beliefs you have failed the test.

sturner wrote:

I've yet to hear a coherent and cogent explanation about why same-sex marriage hurts marriage.

The arguments fly all around that, yet never touch the subject.

And since it's a secular law we are discussing, the moment you mention your religious beliefs you have failed the test.

Because there is no merit because there IS no such thing as sanctity of marriage when half of Hetero marriages result in annulment or divorce.

I'm kinda hoping the proposed ban on divorce in CA makes it on the ballot. I'd like to see the RC church put their money where their mouth is on that issue.

Right here.

And then when you have couples that can't legally separate, they'll be left with nothing but murder/suicide.

When that happens, marriage will be outlawed entirely. OH GOD YES

Well we'll see if that happens. I can understand the administration's hesitance. The electorate is still divided on the marriage issue. Civil unions might be feasible though. But DADT is a no-brainer. There's more than enough support to eliminate it. There are a few holdouts though, they need to be convinced or replaced. I do think we as a community have made a mistake by putting faith in politicians to do the right thing. The civil rights movement also included protests and demonstrations. I think it's time we had some again. Maybe we can even get media coverage like the teabaggers...

Ultimately demographics are on our side. The votes in ME and CA were close. It's only a matter of time as the old folks die off that we'll see more popular support. In any case, it's clear that Obama won't be a fierce advocate unless he's pressed to do so. My concern is that he managed to pull some religious supporters during the election and will tack center-right if need be to keep the White House.

robco wrote:

Well we'll see if that happens. I can understand the administration's hesitance. The electorate is still divided on the marriage issue. Civil unions might be feasible though. But DADT is a no-brainer. There's more than enough support to eliminate it. There are a few holdouts though, they need to be convinced or replaced. I do think we as a community have made a mistake by putting faith in politicians to do the right thing. The civil rights movement also included protests and demonstrations. I think it's time we had some again. Maybe we can even get media coverage like the teabaggers...

Ultimately demographics are on our side. The votes in ME and CA were close. It's only a matter of time as the old folks die off that we'll see more popular support. In any case, it's clear that Obama won't be a fierce advocate unless he's pressed to do so. My concern is that he managed to pull some religious supporters during the election and will tack center-right if need be to keep the White House.

I heard a report on NPR some time ago which said that there were people in the military quietly working on the gay thing and that there was nothing like unanimity in the Pentagon on this issue.
My feeling is at some point Obama might be able to change the rules on gays at the request of the military.

Yeah, no. We should be able to be who we are. People need to stop being so concerned about what other people do and how they live their lives. I have news for you, the "other" queer event that causes consternation - Folsom Street Fair (leather) - is becoming much less queer. There are quite a few twisted heteros who are joining in on the fun. The same could also be said for Gay Pride. There has been some pressure to tone down Pride a little bit since GLBT families do bring their kiddies now, but most festivals have a family area now.

Yes we should focus on the fact that most days of the year most of us lead the same boring lives everyone else does and has the same mundane concerns. But I really don't think we should give into the Puritans. I really don't want others to feel sorry for me and I really don't want to play the victim card. I'd rather others respect my right to think and believe differently and make my own choices. It's not just the GLBT community they'll be going after, anything out of their idea of "mainstream" will be fair game. These people will not stop until they've legislated every facet of life to reflect their interpretation of the good book.

robco wrote:

Yeah, no. We should be able to be who we are. People need to stop being so concerned about what other people do and how they live their lives. I have news for you, the "other" queer event that causes consternation - Folsom Street Fair (leather) - is becoming much less queer. There are quite a few twisted heteros who are joining in on the fun. The same could also be said for Gay Pride. There has been some pressure to tone down Pride a little bit since GLBT families do bring their kiddies now, but most festivals have a family area now.

Yes we should focus on the fact that most days of the year most of us lead the same boring lives everyone else does and has the same mundane concerns. But I really don't think we should give into the Puritans. I really don't want others to feel sorry for me and I really don't want to play the victim card. I'd rather others respect my right to think and believe differently and make my own choices. It's not just the GLBT community they'll be going after, anything out of their idea of "mainstream" will be fair game. These people will not stop until they've legislated every facet of life to reflect their interpretation of the good bookh.

Propagandizing is not giving in.

I don't care what you do in your personal life. Whatever consenting adults want to do is none of my business. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do whatever you like to do; I just wouldn't recommend doing it in front of a news camera for a while.

I know that the people pushing the anti-gay agenda want to control every facet of life. And I vehemently disagree with almost everything they stand for. If it were up to me, gay marriage would be treated exactly the same as any heterosexual marriage.

The people who are most interested in the news reports of gay pride parades are probably the bigots. They use those reports to preach about an "immoral lifestyle", and most people won't take the time to think that maybe all gay people aren't two-dimensional cartoon caricatures. Bigots will point to those clips and say "See, they're all like that. And that's all they do. Letting them marry is like endorsing that." And the mindless masses will listen to them.

The problem is that this is a democratic government(mob rule), where the question of whether to respect human rights is put to a vote. And I'm saying as someone who does want you to have your rights respected that the best way to convince people is to demonstrate situations where those rights have been denied, and to try to make people empathize, rather than by dancing on top of a float dressed in a leather jacket and a pink speedo. Give people real examples of your rights being violated. Focus on those examples and do everything possible to make voters focus on those examples, too.