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#1 2003-04-08 11:26 pm
- raker
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- From: Toronto
- Registered: 2001-07-13
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24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
i'm looking into getting a mini Dv camera to use in a documentary i'm shooting, thinking the jvc dvx100 that does 24p HD, i've already shot some stuff on regular DV, i'll be using FCP4 to edit, is there any compatibility issues with the 24p format and the usual miniDV one? other than some visual differences, which are acceptable for this project, will i be able to edit them together easily? (there is also a bunch of footage being shot on 35mm, 16mm and even some super8, all are going to have to be assimilated together in the end, i only half know what i'm getting into, any advice would be appreciated)
ps: anyone have any complaints about the dvx100, looks pretty good to me.......?
thanks! 
"...pass me another lumberjack!"
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#2 2003-04-09 12:11 am
- Digital Droo
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Re: 24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
thinking the jvc dvx100 that does 24p HD, i've already shot some stuff on regular DV
The camera does 24p, but it does not do HD.
i'll be using FCP4 to edit, is there any compatibility issues with the 24p format and the usual miniDV one?
The camera scans at 24p, but does an in-camera conversion to 60i, which is standard NTSC. Therefore, you can edit dvx100 footage with regular DV footage. This, of course, means you can edit the footage in FCP3 as well.
Just a note: FCP4 handles *native* 24p. In order to edit on a 24p timeline, the footage captured on a dvx100 must be reverse-telecined from 60i back to 24p. Luckily, FCP handles both standard reverse pulldown (3:2), as well as the advanced (2:3:3:2), which is perfect for the camera. Understand, however, that any footage you record in plain' ol 60i, you'll have to reverse telecine to 24p as well. All this would be pointless, however, if your final video is to be shown on regular TV, which is 60i. You'll have to reapply the pulldown for final output. Of course, if you're creating a DVD, there are other issues, but I won't get into it.
(there is also a bunch of footage being shot on 35mm, 16mm and even some super8, all are going to have to be assimilated together in the end, i only half know what i'm getting into, any advice would be appreciated)
Any film-originated footage must go through a conversion to tape if you're going to edit it. I'm assuming you're not going to be working with any Cineon files, so I won't even get into that. Anyway, 35mm and 16mm film get telecined normally, whereas the Super8 format (I'm assuming this is film) might show a speedup, since it's often (if not always) filmed in 18 frames per second, instead of 24 frames per second. In the end, all the stuff will be in 60i, or NTSC when transferred to tape. Oh yeah, this is done at a video transfer center.
I recommend editing in standard NTSC rather than dealing with 24p. The only reason that I can find to edit in 24p is if your edit will be transferred to film in the end, or if you want to create a 24p DVD. At this time, I don't know if the QuickTime MPEG-2 encoder will do that (only NTSC and PAL). It would be cool if it did that when DVD Studio Pro 2 comes out. Check out the info on Apple's site.
ps: anyone have any complaints about the dvx100, looks pretty good to me.
I think the specs are good, and I heard the quality (at least the 60i stuff) outperforms the Sony PD150. I don't have it, so I can't really give an opinion. Sorry.
-droo
Digital Droo - Krazy-Arse 'Lektronik Muzik for Fast-Driving
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#3 2003-04-09 8:19 am
- raker
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Re: 24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
wow, thats alot of info!
....that gives me some things to think about....although, i'm left with one question, what is the point of 24p? i thought it was to give a nice real film look, instead of just using an effects mode like on the cannon xl1, but if you have to keep converting it you'll lose that or if it's only relavent to a final film output, other than saving money on film stock/processing/transfer whats the point?
:raisedbrow:
later!
"...pass me another lumberjack!"
"We beat Penicillin!!!"
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#4 2003-04-09 11:11 am
Re: 24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
The point of 24fps is that it is a traditionally established standard for cinematography, which was developed long before people learned the word "digital". As for the looks of the analog 35mm footage vs. DV, the frame rate is less important than resolution, and that's where you can't beat 35mm film, at least for now.
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#5 2003-04-09 11:24 am
- Digital Droo
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Re: 24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
i'm left with one question, what is the point of 24p? i thought it was to give a nice real film look, instead of just using an effects mode like on the cannon xl1,
24p does give you a film-like look, since it's 24 progressive frame acquisition. Think of it this way. Film cameras shoot at 24 progressive frames per second, but it still has to go through a 3:2 pulldown process to be viewable on NTSC television. The "look" hasn't changed. That's why a movie shown on TV still looks different from a soap operas and the news. Those are acquired at 60i and broadcast as such. They never went through a conversion process.
the dvx100 still acquires at 24p - giving you that film-look (film-motion is more accurate), but it does the conversion to 60i when it lays down to tape. That conversion does nothing more than give you the ability to view it on a standard NTSC monitor (or edit on a standard NTSC NLE). Essentially, the camera took care of the film-to-tape transfer "on the fly."
The conversion process is merely to allow you to use the footage in an appropriate way. Whether you use a 24p timeline in FCP or 60i - it still looks the same. The only difference is, when you work on a true 24p timeline, you can transfer to film without doing a reverse telecine, or you can create a 24p DVD (with the appropriate compressor), which can be viewed on progressive scan DVD players, monitors, displays. Actually, DVD players have a built-in pulldown, so you can watch progressively scanned movies on regular, non-progressive DVDs. For an example of the last point, check out some feature movies on your Mac's DVD player and computer monitor (not on a TV). The movie will usually be very crisp, while the behind-the-scenes stuff will usually display interlaced lines. The movie is in 24p (therefore no interlacing) and the stuff in the behind-the-scenes is usually in 60i (short for 60 fields interlaced). This has little to do with your question, but since I brought up the DVD issue, I thought I'd point that out.
-droo
Digital Droo - Krazy-Arse 'Lektronik Muzik for Fast-Driving
www.digitaldroo.com
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#6 2003-04-09 11:34 am
- raker
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- From: Toronto
- Registered: 2001-07-13
- Posts: 225
Re: 24p video compatibility with standard miniDV
ok....so, just to clarify one thing, i can shoot in 24p mode to get a film look, then edit it together with regular mini dv and not lose the film look, right? basically taking advantage of a process designed for a different purpose to get that film feel.
thanks for all the responses, when i was checking cameras out in shops i didn't really know what to be asking, this helps alot.....
see ya's!
"...pass me another lumberjack!"
"We beat Penicillin!!!"
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