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#1 2003-04-29 4:34 pm

KolobsWarrior
Member
From: Utah, USA
Registered: 2002-09-08
Posts: 205

Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

When I play .mp3s in iTunes 4 and the song gets louder, the volume drops and when it gets quieter it goes louder. It's VERY noticable and happens no matter what I do. What's up with that? Sound Check is off, so I know that's not it, but it's annoying to have my songs fading up and down like that... any solutions?

-KW


I BELIEVE!

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#2 2003-04-29 4:51 pm

Halbie
Member
From: detached from reality...
Registered: 2001-01-09
Posts: 2923

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I have a different problem. I have an iSub and a Powermate plugged in. When I go to adjust the volume through the Powermate or the Menu Bar, the little "you are fading the volume" window doesn't pop up, and the sound doesn't fade smoothly, and sometimes the bass drop out for a few seconds. I'm sure I'll be able to get update drivers eventually, but I thought I would share this in case you have similar items. Then we can narrow it down.

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#3 2003-04-29 5:07 pm

tony-h
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From: Oakland CA USA
Registered: 2002-08-02
Posts: 1207
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I've had a volume problem since itunes 4. I have an imike for my stereo and then isub and sounsticks. Sometimes when I start itunes the volume control on the keyboard is not effective. I open System Prefs and click back and forth between them an the volume starts working.


Tony

"There weren't another other way to be."
Waylon Jennings "Honky Tonk Heros"

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#4 2003-04-29 6:34 pm

KolobsWarrior
Member
From: Utah, USA
Registered: 2002-09-08
Posts: 205

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Hmmm... no iSub, no SoundSticks. I have Alted Lansing speakers and sub... but I don't see how THAT could be the problem... They just relay EXACTLY what the computer's audio-out jack gives them. Thanks for the quick responses, guys! Keep me posted.

-KW


I BELIEVE!

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#5 2003-04-29 6:43 pm

tony-h
Member
From: Oakland CA USA
Registered: 2002-08-02
Posts: 1207
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I only mentioned the equipment in passing, didn't think it would have anything to do with the problem. After thinking about this it seems I had a volume problem in itunes 1 and or 2 but not 3, now irt's back in 4.


Tony

"There weren't another other way to be."
Waylon Jennings "Honky Tonk Heros"

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#6 2003-04-29 6:49 pm

SnotDemon
Member
Registered: 2002-01-30
Posts: 110

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I don't have any version of itunes - but you've got some nasty commpressing/limiting going on there -  - Is sound check a limiting algorighm?

If itunes isn't mangling it  because of playback settings playback he it must have gotten whacked during encoding...


...Life is like a crap sandwich... sure hope ya like corn!

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#7 2003-04-29 6:52 pm

tony-h
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From: Oakland CA USA
Registered: 2002-08-02
Posts: 1207
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Say what?


Tony

"There weren't another other way to be."
Waylon Jennings "Honky Tonk Heros"

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#8 2003-04-29 7:04 pm

Windspear
Member
From: this forum
Registered: 2000-04-02
Posts: 527

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

same here!  the volume keeps going up and down on its own. randomly too

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#9 2003-04-29 7:42 pm

blobbo
Member
From: Montr
Registered: 2000-09-09
Posts: 154

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

i think you can fix this in the prefs.  make sure there's an option in there that says something like "auto-fix the volume" or something that automatically raises/lowers the volume so it's all uniform.  unclick it and things should work.  try it, let me know.


-macintosh isn't just a platform: it's a way of life

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#10 2003-04-30 6:03 pm

KolobsWarrior
Member
From: Utah, USA
Registered: 2002-09-08
Posts: 205

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

If it's the way the song is encoded, it would've appeared in iTunes 3... the files are the same, the software different.

The "auto-fix volume" thing is called sound-check and I have it off... This is really puzzling, I've sent apple a bug report about it, hope it gets fixed!

-KW


I BELIEVE!

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#11 2003-04-30 7:53 pm

tripletmot
Member
From: Cleveland Heights
Registered: 2002-12-14
Posts: 425
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I'm having the same problem. Only noticable in iTunes 4. Sounds like a bug if it's replicable on multiple systems and set ups...

Apple, you listening?

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#12 2003-04-30 9:52 pm

tripletmot
Member
From: Cleveland Heights
Registered: 2002-12-14
Posts: 425
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Now this is really getting to me... I sent a bug report to Apple. Hope they fix this...

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#13 2003-05-02 12:17 am

Quantum Cowboy
Member
Registered: 2001-04-24
Posts: 50

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I've run into the same problem (just updated to iTunes 4). It seems to be the Sound Enhancer. I turn it off, the volume yo-yo stops. Turn it on and it's back.

It's definitely not random. As noted, it seems tied to the volume of the music. I have a track that's really good for showing the problem - got some moderately loud bass drum hits in the opening. After each one the volume drops, then starts to recover in the quieter part, then drops again at the next bass drum. With the Sound Enhancer off, this effect goes away.

This sucks because for me anyway the Sound Enhancer actually *does* make the music sound better. At least it did in iTunes 3. Time for a bug report...

-Robb


"We're here to make a dent in the Universe." - Steve Jobs
I tried that, but all I ended up with was higher insurance
rates and a really big bill from the body shop.

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#14 2003-05-02 1:06 am

FreewayWarrior
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From: Palm Springs, CA
Registered: 2003-05-02
Posts: 1
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Mine does it whether sound enhancer is on or off.  It makes it sound like an FM radio, or one of those cheap DVD players that limit the dynamic range and get all quiet when theres a big boom.  Why would anyone even want this effect?  Fix it Apple!  sad

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#15 2003-05-02 2:11 am

Vokbain
old school
From: The Future
Registered: 1999-02-28
Posts: 3073
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Happens to me with both Sound Enhancer and Sound Check turned off. Sent off a bug report as well.


hello

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#16 2003-05-02 2:58 am

Cuzog
Member
From: UCLA
Registered: 2001-02-22
Posts: 171
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

odd, I am not experiencing any of this one either of my computers... I wonder how big of a problem this is.


Marathon: Resurrection<BR>http://resurrection.bungie.org

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#17 2003-05-02 3:42 am

MacLuxo84
Member
Registered: 2002-12-15
Posts: 26

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I guess I can add myself to the iTunes fade problem list.

At first I thought it may be my speakers.  Then I thought I was going deaf.  But no, it's just iTunes.

Has anyone received a response regarding the bug report?

--MacLuxo

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#18 2003-05-02 9:56 am

Quantum Cowboy
Member
Registered: 2001-04-24
Posts: 50

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Ok, since some people have the problem even with the Sound Enhancer off, and some aren't seeing it at all, maybe it's some other kind of interaction. Let's see if we can find a common factor. Here's my setup:

Dual-1.25 G4 (OS 9 bootable), 1 GB RAM, Radeon 9000, OS X 10.2.5 (freshly upgraded via Software Update, did Repair Permissions afterwards)

Apple Pro Speakers (type of speakers could be important)

iTunes 4.0, also from Software Update

Equalizer Set to Bass Booster (haven't played with any settings here)

Sound Check is off (doesn't seem to have an effect one way or another)

Additional software installed includes Kensington Mouseworks and several Unsanity Haxies

One other thing to note is that this variable volume effect happens when playing CDs, too. So it doesn't seem to be an encoding problem. And if I fire up iTunes 3 (which thankfully I kept a backup of) it all sounds great, including with the Sound Enhancer. So it doesn't appear to be an OS-level problem.

-Robb


"We're here to make a dent in the Universe." - Steve Jobs
I tried that, but all I ended up with was higher insurance
rates and a really big bill from the body shop.

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#19 2003-05-02 10:00 am

robhulson
Christian Hedonist
Royal Wombat
From: Fridley, Minnesota
Registered: 2000-02-23
Posts: 3390
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I noticed this as well on my iMac DV SE (2000). Just thought I'd add my voice to the base, here.

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#20 2003-05-02 11:10 am

arkayn
Addicted to TIVO
From: Golden Valley
Registered: 2000-03-02
Posts: 5472
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I have not seen it all on my system and it fairly stock as far as the OS goes.


iMac C2D, 2.0 GHz, OS X 10.6.2, 2.5 GB Ram.

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#21 2003-05-02 12:07 pm

Aurik
Member
From: MB, Canada
Registered: 2001-02-20
Posts: 655

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I just tried it out on my old Tangerine iMac running OS X.2.5 w/iTunes 4 of course...no issues that I can tell so far.

Perhaps another item to look for connections with is this:
Are the users that are having problems download iTunes via Software Update?  Or directly from the Apple site?

I downloaded mine directly from the Apple site.

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#22 2003-05-02 12:22 pm

tripletmot
Member
From: Cleveland Heights
Registered: 2002-12-14
Posts: 425
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Downloaded mine from the site, not software update. Would that really make a difference?

I agree that it is tied to the dynamic ranges of the music... seems to have a lagging effect. If a bass hit comes in, the level drops but stays down for 1 or 2 seconds there after. I think this normally takes place, however it's in fractions of a second that we probably don't "hear."

Kinda disappointing. This makes 2 iApp releases this year that had noticable issues upon release (iMovie being the other).

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#23 2003-05-02 8:06 pm

arkayn
Addicted to TIVO
From: Golden Valley
Registered: 2000-03-02
Posts: 5472
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I downloaded mine from the website because it never showed up in software update.


iMac C2D, 2.0 GHz, OS X 10.6.2, 2.5 GB Ram.

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#24 2003-05-02 8:17 pm

Vokbain
old school
From: The Future
Registered: 1999-02-28
Posts: 3073
Website

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

I got both iTunes 4 and Quicktime 6.2 off the site.


hello

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#25 2003-05-03 7:59 pm

Quantum Cowboy
Member
Registered: 2001-04-24
Posts: 50

Re: Funny Volume Fades in iTunes 4

Ok, I believe I know what is happening. It seems iTunes 4 is doing really clumsy level control to prevent clipping distortion. So if sound levels hit the maximum, it throttles the volume down.

I just finished experimenting with various combinations of Equalizer and Sound Enhancer settings using a track that shows the problem very well. I could use the SE with the EQ set to "Flat" and I saw no variation. Same if I turned the SE off but set the EQ to "Bass Booster". But both together show the problem. And most telling, if I turned off the SE and manually cranked the EQ bass frequencies to double the "Bass Booster" levels, I got the fades again.

For comparison, I played the track in iTunes 3 with SE on and EQ on "Bass Booster" (my preferred setup). I did notice distortion when the bass got loud. In iTunes 4, that's precisely where the fades happen. Note that this is independent of the actual volume setting - I'm seeing this with the System volume at 50% and iTunes volume at 50%. My Pro Speakers aren't straining, it's clipping in the digital realm.

The long and the short of it seems to be that iTunes 4 implements a new algorithm to handle clipping which, quite frankly, sucks. I'm going to re-submit my bug report to Apple and tell them what I've found. Until/unless they fix this, everybody check your Equalizer settings. If you have the fade problem, try backing the preamp down slightly. This preserves the relative frequency settings and should drop the levels below the clipping threshold. This worked for my troublesome track.

-Robb


"We're here to make a dent in the Universe." - Steve Jobs
I tried that, but all I ended up with was higher insurance
rates and a really big bill from the body shop.

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