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#1 2003-06-01 12:45 am
- Troutski
- Dutuwende

- From: Dry Rot, Texas
- Registered: 2001-03-28
- Posts: 3545
Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
It appears to me that both the government and the media are treating Rudolph differently than they are treating al Qaeda members. This CNN article on Rudolph only uses the word 'terrorist' once, and that is in a quote. Rudolph is refered to as a "bombing suspect".
Compare that article to this one. Admittedly Khalid Shaikh Mohammed is a bigger fish than Rudolph, but notice the difference how CNN presents the two 'terrorists'.
I claim that Rudolph is being treated differently than al Qaeda suspects, including the U.S. citizen Padillia, because Rudolph is white and Christian.
Both al Qaeda and Rudolph sought to alter American policies through the use of terror as a weapon, yet Rudolph will continue to be treated better by both the media and our government. Don't get me wrong, Ashcroft will go for the death penalty for Rudolph because Ashcroft would probably like to see the death penalty applied to jaywalking, but Rudolph will be presented in a better light and afforded more rights than any al Qaeda member, even though both are 'terrorists'.
This is more evidence the arbitrary and capricious and POLITICAL nature of the war on terrorism.
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#2 2003-06-01 2:43 am
- more or less
- excrementalist
- From: noodley goodness
- Registered: 2003-04-16
- Posts: 6081
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
i don't see how an abortion bombing is an act against the "state" or the "nation"?
that isn't terrorism, imho. still should get a hardcore sentence, though.
and really, evading the authorities for that long is quite impressive...
or is this the "olympic bombing"?
anything you type can and will be used against you

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#3 2003-06-01 2:56 am
- gradient
- Member
- Registered: 2002-04-24
- Posts: 3101
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
It may be because in this atmosphere, terrorist means 'crazy muslim who kills people'.
Calling him a terrorist might confuse people. Calling him a 'terror suspect' might make people believe he is associated with the Al-Qaeda wackos.
This is the problem in the way these wackos are treated in both the news and politics. We are at war with militant Islamic fanatics. When we arrest Al-Qaeda members, we say they are terrorists, rather than Islamic militants.
And I'm not saying this is a matter of political correctness or the fault of liberals either. Using the word "terrorist" instead of a more accurate phrase is the fault of people in politics, right and left and in the whole of media. I'm not even suggesting it's wrong either, I understand the reason for it. But I believe he isn't being touted as a terrorist because that term is being used on something else right now.
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#4 2003-06-01 3:39 am
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.

- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
that isn't terrorism, imho.
He's got a political statement to make. He's using force and the threat of force. His choice of targets terrorizes others (in similar situations).
How is it not terrorism?
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#6 2003-06-01 8:41 am
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
So, then, by your definition Alfred Hitchcock and Stephen King are terrorists. . .
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#7 2003-06-01 9:34 am
- Mustapha Mond
- Up your alley

- Registered: 2001-03-24
- Posts: 7098
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Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
Here is a pretty good thread where the forum attempted to define terrorism/terrorist. I think it's worth people's time to check it out before that particular debate starts up again in this thread.
More on topic: The popular idea in the American mind of what a terrorist is will always involve some brown-skinned guy from the Middle East blowing up himself and everyone else in the neighborhood. So it's no surprise to me that he's getting a different type of media attention than al'Qaeda, because he'll never really be seen by most people as a terrorist and the coverage needs to be tailored to sell the story.
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#8 2003-06-01 10:37 am
- ClayH
- Member
- From: Texas
- Registered: 2001-07-21
- Posts: 1556
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
He's a 'suspect' because he hasn't been proven guilty.
You liberals need to realize that in our country you're innocent until proven guilty! 


I'm going to leave it at that.
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#9 2003-06-01 11:24 am
- Jaligard
- Sarcasm is just one service I offer.

- Registered: 2001-02-03
- Posts: 5199
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
He's a 'suspect' because he hasn't been proven guilty.
You liberals need to realize that in our country you're innocent until proven guilty!
Yeah, point taken.
But other recent suspects, such the two Sniper suspects, were quickly labelled and I believe even charged with terrorism. They certainly did cause terror but they had no political message. But they were Muslim.
George Bush: "If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator."
George Bush: "One of the hardest parts of my job is to try to connect Iraq to the war on terror."
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#10 2003-06-01 12:42 pm
- Troutski
- Dutuwende

- From: Dry Rot, Texas
- Registered: 2001-03-28
- Posts: 3545
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
Official United States Government Definition of Terrorism
"[An] act of terrorism, means any activity that (A) involves a violent act or an act dangerous to human life that is a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or any State, or that would be a criminal violation if committed within the jurisdiction of the United States or of any State; and (B) appears to be intended (i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by assassination or kidnapping."
(United States Code Congressional and Administrative News, 98th Congress, Second Session, 1984, Oct. 19, volume 2; par. 3077, 98 STAT. 2707 [West Publishing Co., 1984])
According the the US government definition, Rudolph is a terrorist. Malvo is black and Muslim. The "T word" was used by the media right away. Today CNN seemed to be going out of the way to avoid using the T word with Rudolph.
Let's not forget The Army of God (Rudolph's supporters) also sent the fake Anthrax letters. Isn't that terrorism?
I am absolutely convinced that Rudolph is being treated differently because radical Christians support his goals of attacking gays and abortion clinics and the current administration believes in the radical Christian's goals.
If Rudolph he blew up Southern Baptist churches instead of gay night clubs, he would be labeled a terrorist by the media and prosecuted under the USA Patriot Act.
The alternate media is not afraid to call these people terrorists. Notice that Waagner was not charged with any crimes under the USA Patriot Act, even though the fake Anthrax letters were sent post 9/11.
Terrorize for the Christian God and face lesser penalties and be afforded legal protections. Terrorize for the Muslim God and face the harshest sanctions possible including denial of legal representation.
I hope someone can convince me that I am wrong because I was taught to expect this sort of behavior from a radical theocracy like Iran and not the USA.
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#11 2003-06-01 2:37 pm
- more or less
- excrementalist
- From: noodley goodness
- Registered: 2003-04-16
- Posts: 6081
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
hrmmm,
well, thanks to the patriot act, in this country you more or less (snicker) ARE GUILTY OF TERRORISM from the get-go...
so, first, let's clearly limit this to DOMESTIC TERRORISM. if anyone mention anything arabic/al-qaeda, YOU ARE A GUILTY THREAD TERRORIST!!!!
so, doesn't anyone remember the phrase EXTREMIST. and extremist groups? a religious zealot, acting alone, does not represent and attack on the state. he has not in fact attacked or even verbally threatened and governmental agent or authority, unless you can prove that was what he was trying to do with the bombs. have fun in court with that one.
come-on, revoutionaries, guerilla-fighter, freedom-fighter: it's all semantic bullsmurf. but Mustapha, there is a need for legal application of terminology. and this happened before the patriot act, but after oklahoma; so i have no clue with how that affects what he is charged of....
labeling someone as an extremist, religious jerkwad or a domestic terrorist is one thing when viewed semantically; altogether another when viewed as a definition of law and criminal charges.
this is not even domestic terrorism in my book. extremist hate crime, yes. and those carry similiar punishments. in the end, as long as the punishment fits the crime, why label any and all dissent as terrorism?
i guess rage against the machine is quilty of terrorism in la from the actions at the dnc convention.
huh, people come on!
cruising down rodeo with my shotgun...
anything you type can and will be used against you

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#12 2003-06-01 4:11 pm
- ClayH
- Member
- From: Texas
- Registered: 2001-07-21
- Posts: 1556
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
"I am absolutely convinced that Rudolph is being treated differently because radical Christians support his goals of attacking gays and abortion clinics and the current administration believes in the radical Christian's goals."
You're making things up. I heard the official statement on NBC, and it was something like "all terrorists, whether foreign or domestic, will be hunted down and pay for their crimes". They did use the T-word.
I'm going to leave it at that.
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#13 2003-06-01 4:40 pm
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
"I am absolutely convinced that Rudolph is being treated differently because radical Christians support his goals of attacking gays and abortion clinics and the current administration believes in the radical Christian's goals."
You're making things up. I heard the official statement on NBC, and it was something like "all terrorists, whether foreign or domestic, will be hunted down and pay for their crimes". They did use the T-word.
Let's check out Fox News, shall we?
A white terrorist? Good heavens, no!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88292,00.html
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#14 2003-06-01 5:00 pm
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
It appears to me that both the government and the media are treating Rudolph differently than they are treating al Qaeda members.......This is more evidence the arbitrary and capricious and POLITICAL nature of the war on terrorism.
No it isn't. It is more evidentiary of the ambiguous nature, the moral relativist nature, the pragmatist nature of the media covering this issue.
AutoJC
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#15 2003-06-01 5:18 pm
- bratboy
- keeping the poor down
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34251
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
No it isn't. It is more evidentiary of the ambiguous nature, the moral relativist nature, the pragmatist nature of the media covering this issue.
I'm now convinced that 'relativist' is your favorite word in the english language...though I have no idea how that applies here.
:?:
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#16 2003-06-01 5:24 pm
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
No it isn't. It is more evidentiary of the ambiguous nature, the moral relativist nature, the pragmatist nature of the media covering this issue.
I'm now convinced that 'relativist' is your favorite word in the english language...though I have no idea how that applies here.
:?:
OK
In reading the two links, I now realize that it was troutski's post, not the articles, that represent moral relativism. 
AutoJC
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#17 2003-06-01 9:19 pm
- more or less
- excrementalist
- From: noodley goodness
- Registered: 2003-04-16
- Posts: 6081
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
hrmm,
i almost agree with you. after awhile, i am sure i'll find something i don't like about that....
ahhh, yes,
but, for this to fall into a "relative" argument, we'd have to be comparing the same thing, or crime, to different points of view. this isn't the case here. you cannot compare to different crimes and talk about the relativity, they ain't realted if you follow my drift.
troutski thinks the press is guilty of this, and i diagree, based on my perception of the "crime."
anything you type can and will be used against you

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#18 2003-06-01 9:39 pm
- bratboy
- keeping the poor down
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34251
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
this isn't the case here. you cannot compare to different crimes and talk about the relativity, they ain't realted if you follow my drift.
Bombing things and killing people?
What's the difference?
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#19 2003-06-01 9:51 pm
- more or less
- excrementalist
- From: noodley goodness
- Registered: 2003-04-16
- Posts: 6081
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
killing, more accurately murder, is legally defined by its intent.
not the "simple fact" that people are dead. in fact, terrorism does not require death, but only threat and coercion.
i perceive the attack on people, and society. not government and policies.
anything you type can and will be used against you

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#20 2003-06-02 9:12 am
- AdamB
- Member
- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-02-17
- Posts: 682
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
Forgive me for pointing out the obvious, but... CNN is not John Ashcroft.
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#21 2003-06-02 10:13 am
- The New Guy
- Member

- From: Left of left
- Registered: 2000-10-18
- Posts: 3422
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
I do believe that Rudoph is a terrorist. His attacks were motivated by politics, and so are meant to cause terror to scare people into following his ideology. No different from OK city, Hammas, or al Qaeda, or the leftist terrorists acting in South America.
There are four types of killing:
1) Crimes of Passion - Murder
2) Crimes of Politics - Terrorism
3) Crimes of Insanity - Murder
4) Crimes of the State - War
The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.
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#22 2003-06-02 11:35 am
- NokX
- Member of the Month

- From: Knoxville, TN
- Registered: 2000-07-17
- Posts: 6301
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
It appears to me that both the government and the media are treating Rudolph differently than they are treating al Qaeda members.
i think he's on the same playing ground as a terrorist because he's out to cause harm and strike fear into people.
but he's not a part of an organization like al qaeda or anything.
he's an extremist who thinks that everyone that is different from him should die. just like al qaeda.
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it." Abraham Lincoln
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#23 2003-06-02 12:12 pm
- bratboy
- keeping the poor down
- Royal Wombat

- From: Austin, Texas
- Registered: 2003-01-19
- Posts: 34251
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
but he's not a part of an organization like al qaeda or anything.
he's an extremist who thinks that everyone that is different from him should die. just like al qaeda.
I thought he was part of that psycho pro-life group that likes to blow up things.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#24 2003-06-02 2:31 pm
- Troutski
- Dutuwende

- From: Dry Rot, Texas
- Registered: 2001-03-28
- Posts: 3545
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
Here is the site for Rudolph's group. After viewing the site, tell me if you think he is a terrorist.
<warning: the AOG site is graphic and very sick>
BTW, isn't it interesting how the anti-abortion people refuse to call Rudolph a terrorist while others are willing to use the term, even in this forum. Sort of proves my point anecdotally.
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#25 2003-06-02 4:13 pm
- more or less
- excrementalist
- From: noodley goodness
- Registered: 2003-04-16
- Posts: 6081
Re: Eric Robert Rudolph: Bombing Suspect, Not Really A Terrorist
again,
i'll point out that i think you are confusing religion with politics in this case.
much like the way bushies do.
humor: terrorism: the quicker picker-upper
let's see what he gets charged with.... my guess is this would be an interesting time to test "domestic terrorism," and it will ultimately weaken the homeland defense stuff (i hope).
smurf, if they charge him with "domestic terrorism," they don't even have to go to trial to hold him "indefinately," without even charging him with anything....
anything you type can and will be used against you

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