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right...  so someone gets married, has kids, and then 20 years later that they're gay?  or is gay for 20 years and then decides they're straight?

feelings CAN change...i'm sorry.

It depends on your situation.  Personally, I was a bit of a late bloomer.  I didn't come out until after college.  Until then, I "played it straight."  I dated chicks, even though I knew I wasn't really attracted to them.  I was taught from a very early age that being gay was a bad thing.  This was reinforced by others growing up.  While I personally never did it with any of my girlfriends, I tried to be a good straight boy.  Then I gave up trying, learned to love myself for who I am and to live my life the way I choose.  It takes some people longer to reach this point than others.

So don't assume that just because someone pretended for many years to be straight that they just magically switched.  Chances are they were repressing their true desires for quite some time.  And no amount of reprogramming, religious or otherwise can change that.  Even the founders of Exodus International gave up, and their most recent poster boy was spotted in a gay bar.

Fact is, it hasn't been conclusively proven how, why or when sexual orientation is determined.

Orientation does NOT change. It is either acknowledged or repressed due to outside factors.

right...  so someone gets married, has kids, and then 20 years later that they're gay?  or is gay for 20 years and then decides they're straight?

feelings CAN change...i'm sorry.

Gay isn't a feeling. Unless it means happy. No one wakes up one day and says 'I'm feeling rather gay today, perhaps I'll go have relations with someone of the same sex'.  You're either gay or not. And if you knew anything about social behavior you'd know people repress things for a lot more than 20 years. Just because someone refuses to acknowledge something doesn't make it untrue. Facts NEVER change, our perception of them and the way we deal with them change. When the world was believed flat it wasn't flat. The fact did not change the perception did. Your perception of someone else being gay or not and them expressing it does not change the fact that they ARE gay and always were.

To put it bluntly, does it really matter who's smurfing who? If people spent as much time trying to help each other as they do obsessing about what everyone else is doing with their dick, the world would be a much better place.

If Tom enjoys having sex with Bill on Tuesday, but decides he prefers sleeping with Lucy on Thursday, what should we care? It's between Tom, Bill, and Lucy to sort that one out. If Bruce thinks having sex with men is perverse and disgusting, then he probably shouldn't have sex with men, but it's none of his business if Bill and Tom think differently. If Lucy likes to have sex wearing a rubber diving suit, a ballet tutu, and a Groucho Marx moustache, good for her, that's her choice.

The only rule I care to follow is this: I don't care what you do with your dick, where you put it or with whom you share it, just keep it consensual.

Oh my God.  You...

You...there is no word for it.  Feelings do not change, you smurfing moron.  Why the hell would gay people continue to be gay if they could?

It's people like you, not us, that the world could do without.

because they feel like it...  the same reason i feel like getting chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla.

are you really that dense to think that feelings don't change?  really?

Another one of your completely devoid-of-intelligence posts.  Sexual orientation is as solid genetically as whether or not one is biologically male or female.  Your constant equating of food tastes to sexual orientation is as outrageous as suggesting that a male could have his parts shrivel up and grow boobs simply because he felt like it or had a change of heart.

Orientation does NOT change. It is either acknowledged or repressed due to outside factors.

right...  so someone gets married, has kids, and then 20 years later that they're gay?  or is gay for 20 years and then decides they're straight?

feelings CAN change...i'm sorry.

Gay isn't a feeling. Unless it means happy. No one wakes up one day and says 'I'm feeling rather gay today, perhaps I'll go have relations with someone of the same sex'.  You're either gay or not. And if you knew anything about social behavior you'd know people repress things for a lot more than 20 years. Just because someone refuses to acknowledge something doesn't make it untrue. Facts NEVER change, our perception of them and the way we deal with them change. When the world was believed flat it wasn't flat. The fact did not change the perception did. Your perception of someone else being gay or not and them expressing it does not change the fact that they ARE gay and always were.

i agree...i didn't wake up and say "dang, i want a salad today"  overtime i started to really like them.

again...what about ellen degenereses ex-lover?  was she just straight the whole time and was afraid to come out as straight, too?

Ever consider that she isn't straight?  Just went back into the closet?  Oh, I forgot, that takes a brain to figure out.  Sorry.

Oh my God.  You...

You...there is no word for it.  Feelings do not change, you smurfing moron.  Why the hell would gay people continue to be gay if they could?

It's people like you, not us, that the world could do without.

because they feel like it...  the same reason i feel like getting chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla.

are you really that dense to think that feelings don't change?  really?

Another one of your completely devoid-of-intelligence posts.  Sexual orientation is as solid genetically as whether or not one is biologically male or female.  Your constant equating of food tastes to sexual orientation is as outrageous as suggesting that a male could have his parts shrivel up and grow boobs simply because he felt like it or had a change of heart.

male = physical attribute
black skin = physical attribute
liking coffee = emotional attribute
liking same sex = emotional attribute

again...bisexuals.  the perfect example of choice. 

Oh my God.  You...

You...there is no word for it.  Feelings do not change, you smurfing moron.  Why the hell would gay people continue to be gay if they could?

It's people like you, not us, that the world could do without.

because they feel like it...  the same reason i feel like getting chocolate ice cream instead of vanilla.

are you really that dense to think that feelings don't change?  really?

Another one of your completely devoid-of-intelligence posts.  Sexual orientation is as solid genetically as whether or not one is biologically male or female.  Your constant equating of food tastes to sexual orientation is as outrageous as suggesting that a male could have his parts shrivel up and grow boobs simply because he felt like it or had a change of heart.

male = physical attribute
black skin = physical attribute
liking coffee = emotional attribute
liking same sex = emotional attribute

again...bisexuals.  the perfect example of choice. 

Male = Genetically Determined Biological Attribute
Black Skin = Evolutionarily Determined Genetically Associated Biological Attribute
Liking Coffee = Environmentally Determined Self-Preferential Attribute
Liking Same Sex = Genetically Determined Self-Preferential Attribute

Environments change.  Genes don't.

again...what about ellen degenereses ex-lover?  was she just straight the whole time and was afraid to come out as straight, too?

What about her?

Use a better example than Anne Heche, please. A woman who swears God told her to take E and walk out into the desert.



Oh yeah.

Gay = not a choice, nor feeling.

You probably didn't like salads a kid because you didn't like vegetables. Comparing a dislike/like of salad to homosexuality is a joke. Kinda like many of your posts.

Being straight is a downhill coast full of encouragements al along the way. Being gay and adjusted is uphill, and there is a discouragement waiting for you at every turn. This is how guys who like guys can get married and have 15 kids and then decide at midlife they are gay.

Its called repression and overcompensation.

Very well put

let me know if this is common sense or not...

there are two genders, male and female.  made for reproduction, right there.  obviously made to coincide with one another, correct?

now, speaking logically...  if we were meant to be gay, don't you think we would've been extinct a looong time ago?

again, i'm not bashing the homosexual lifestyle here...i'm simply saying that it's not a physical attribute.

let me know if this is common sense or not...

there are two genders, male and female.  made for reproduction, right there.  obviously made to coincide with one another, correct?

now, speaking logically...  if we were meant to be gay, don't you think we would've been extinct a looong time ago?

again, i'm not bashing the homosexual lifestyle here...i'm simply saying that it's not a physical attribute.

I didn't say it was a physical attribute, now, did I?  Then again, perhaps your IQ is too low to comprehend the big words I used in my post; considering your other posts in this thread, it wouldn't surprise me.

If your tunnelvision is that bad and your hypocrisy so great, I don't think there's anything anyone could do to save you.  The Real World is going to come around one of these days and smack you upside the head, and you're not even going to see it coming.

let me know if this is common sense or not...

there are two genders, male and female.  made for reproduction, right there.  obviously made to coincide with one another, correct?

now, speaking logically...  if we were meant to be gay, don't you think we would've been extinct a looong time ago?

again, i'm not bashing the homosexual lifestyle here...i'm simply saying that it's not a physical attribute.

It's a policy of mine never to take seriously someone who doesn't know the GODDAMNED BASIC smurfing difference between gender and sex.

And to address the actual topic of this thread, I've been waiting all day to pipe in and comment that I have a friend who is married to her first cousin. They look so much alike that people often wonder if they're siblings. They have two young children. I often wonder to myself if they have intentions to tell their children that their father's mother, their grandmother, is also their mother's aunt. I find it all a bit odd, to tell the truth, particularly that their families never discouraged them from having a relationship in the first place.