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yes I hate that too.

Professional implies you actually get paid to do it.

it is quite interesting to see the kind of stuff people pad their resumes with

working at a computer store we got lots of people who wanted a job they had crap experience but they had a full page of stuff they "knew"

I have a friend, who is one year older than me (19) and he started his own webdesign firm. Sure, it is just a dotcom, but he teamed up with a girl we know from way back when (we used to agroskate all together) and she is now the CEO. He is the CIO and I am a Flash and web developer. Although none of us have even gone through any formal training, and frankly none of us could ever afford to (to an extended degree, I am not talking Gibbs-level,) we still write HTML (as well as dhtml, php, ccs, etc) better than some 'real' firms. We applied for a liscence or whatever it is, and now are an official company, registered with the US.

http://607Design.com
607 Site Design, Inc.

To sum it up, and to *gasp* be on topic, I are not programmer, but it sure contradicts what you guys are saying about people like us.

P.S. We are not making much money, which is arguabley the most important point of business, but we also have 0% advertising and no one really knows about us.

It's actually a boon when people list HTML as a programming language.  It moves that resume on the queue that goes into the trash can.

IMO, a programming language is quantified by being able to define and assign variables.

So you would consider javascipt a programming language?

(By the way, HTML has a few variables.)

well that's when you get into the "big 3"


programming language:  you write code, it is complied and becomes an aplication which then runs as an executable file.

scripting language: you write code, it sits and waits to be used, is compiled at runtime and does neat stuff.  Requires an interpreter to complie at runtime, either client, or server side.

markup language: you write tags, they format data.


and that's what I like to refer to as the "big 3"


lateralis

My problem in getting jobs has always been my firm opposition to resume padding.

I don't own, run, or have a design firm.  I am a professional designer and illustrator, but I am just a freelance, self-employed type, so I don't say anything other than that.

I don't know any programming languages.  I can build stuff with HTML, but it is, as has been said, not a programming language.  I can muck around in AppleScript, perl, Java, and JavaScript, but I don't know enough to be able to write code from scratch, so I don't list it.

My point is that sometimes, not padding a resume can make you seem under-qualified, albeit honest, compared to the pillow-like resumes of other applicants for a job.  I've had many a case where I was the most qualified applicant, but my stark, simple honesty and unpretentious way of presenting myself as an artist with a strong traditional art background, and education (and years of experience) in graphic (emphasis on print) design, loses out against the phonies who pad their resume up like you wouldn't believe.

I remember one where I walked in with a clean, single page resume.  Another guy, who was there for the same job, came in with what could only be described as an over-designed, 10 page, mini-autobiography covered with graphics and utilizing multiple fonts and a funky layout with colored backgrounds and text areas on a heavier stock of semi-gloss paper.  From what I glanced at, it was all filler: narratives, and long-winded diatribes about God knows what.  The references, work experience, education, etc. was...seemingly non-existent.  He got the job, though.  Pretentious bastard.  I wanted to beat the crap out of him right there.

It's actually a boon when people list HTML as a programming language.  It moves that resume on the queue that goes into the trash can.

IMO, a programming language is quantified by being able to define and assign variables.

So you would consider javascipt a programming language?

(By the way, HTML has a few variables.)

JavaScript is a sandboxed programming language. Scripting language to be exact.

Yes you'll get the basics for 'real' programming or whatever you want to call it learning Javascript but its not a full blown lanugage in its own right.

-=Jax=-

Being a CS major and all I have a good grasp of java and C++ but I still dont consider myself to be a real programmer. Why? because I havent actually made anything usefull. Sure I have done the many assignments assigned but those arent for anything but a grade. As soon as I start producing things people use I will eventually start feeling that I am a programmer.

It's actually a boon when people list HTML as a programming language.  It moves that resume on the queue that goes into the trash can.

IMO, a programming language is quantified by being able to define and assign variables.

So you would consider javascipt a programming language?

(By the way, HTML has a few variables.)

Yeah, but can you define and assign the pre and post variables in HTML?  No, you've got to use methods.

Well both of them were stupid. He should have asked for a hand coded site before hiring.

Ugh, that is beyond lazy.

Well both of them were stupid. He should have asked for a hand coded site before hiring.

Ugh, that is beyond lazy.

"Herman" is the first to admit that he was stupid for hiring the guy.  He was taken in once, but only once.  He has since changed his hiring practices.

Yes I hate it when someone tells me they are a programmer, and then I find out they actually just make web sites using some WYSIWYG code generator.

I think people who use dreamweaver, frontpage and whatever else drag and drop HTML editors are out there for HTML coding are complete pussies.  I'm sorry, even calling it code is stretching the truth.

Real men use the cheapest damn text editor money can buy, and code it by hand.  And when I say cheapest I mean "FREE".

People who think HTML should be used (and changed) for precise design and layout should be beaten with heavy studded blunt instruments.

(puts on flame retardant suit)

-mark