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#1 2003-07-15 1:02 pm
- XYZ
- Banned
- Registered: 2000-07-03
- Posts: 10881
White House projects record $455 billion deficit
http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&am … =us_budget
"President Bush is repeating two dangerous habits: misleading the American people and ducking responsibility for his mistakes," said Democratic presidential hopeful Joseph Lieberman, a senator from Connecticut.
The White House countered that the 2003 and 2004 budget deficits -- 50 percent higher than the administration's own forecasts five months ago -- were "manageable."
WASHINGTON - New Bush administration projections of record federal deficits surpassing $400 billion seem understated, Democrats say, because they will probably exclude the future U.S. operations in Iraq (news - web sites) and other long-range costs.
The White House numbers were expected to exclude the future costs of U.S. operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, which are approaching $5 billion per month. They were expected to include costs incurred there to date.
In the longer term, the administration figures will not count the hundreds of billions of dollars it would take to make permanent the tax cuts Congress enacted in 2001 and earlier this year. The White House's budget projections are expected to be for the next five years, but many of those tax cuts expire in 2010
there's really no need for all of this
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#2 2003-07-15 2:12 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Amazing how history's wheel turns. Once the Democrats were wacky budget-busting commies, and the Repubs were tough-minded fiscally responsible technocrats. Now they've switched. Amazing.
I'm currently fascinated how right-wingers who, ten years ago ranted and raved about the deficit and the legacy we were leaving our children, now say, "meh ... the deficit's no big deal."
One does wonder how long the deficits can continue before it affects the economy. I guess the hope is that massive tax cuts for the rich will help put things back ont rack.
Worth noting, by the way, is the fact that the current deficit, as a percentage of the economy, is not yet the biggest ever. That dubious honor goes to the Reagan administration.
Meanwhile, here's a very interesting article about the White House, and how it's full of smurf about its economic data. An example:
The Bush economic team has snuffed its own reports when they reach conclusions that don't match the administration's rosy scenarios. The administration deep-sixed a study commissioned by then Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill that predicts huge budget deficits well into the future. As noted by the Financial Times in late May, this survey, which asserted that the baby-boom generation's future health care and retirement costs would swamp U.S. coffers, was dropped from a 2004 budget summary published in February 2003
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#3 2003-07-15 2:22 pm
- The New Guy
- Member
- From: Left of left
- Registered: 2000-10-18
- Posts: 3422
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
This deficit is the reason why Wes Clark may run as a democrat.
Slogan for the Democratic Campaign: Peace, Freedom, Responsibility
Make Bush answer the questions about the practices of his regime.
The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.
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#4 2003-07-15 2:27 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Answer for the policies of "his" regime? What were the Dems doing while those policies were being formulated and approved? Signing off on them, that's where.
I can think of a good Bush question that would shut down carping along the lines you suggest: "and how did your party vote on that?"
Blam. Election over. See you in Denmark.
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#5 2003-07-15 2:48 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34096
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Again with XYZ's "gay" topics. Can't you give it a rest, I... oh. Oops. Nevermind.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#6 2003-07-15 2:49 pm
- XYZ
- Banned
- Registered: 2000-07-03
- Posts: 10881
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Now they've switched.
Now?
The last record was set by the first Bush.
there's really no need for all of this
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#7 2003-07-15 2:53 pm
- The New Guy
- Member
- From: Left of left
- Registered: 2000-10-18
- Posts: 3422
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Answer for the policies of "his" regime? What were the Dems doing while those policies were being formulated and approved? Signing off on them, that's where.
I can think of a good Bush question that would shut down carping along the lines you suggest: "and how did your party vote on that?"
Blam. Election over. See you in Denmark.
"There is a lovely land
That proudly spreads her beeches
Beside the Baltic strand,
Beside the Baltic strand.
A land that curves in hill and dale,
That men have named Old Denmark,
And this is Freya's hall, and this is Freya's hall..."
You get the picture. 
Well, maybe it would work if they let Nader in on the debates. Now THAT would be cool.
The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.
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#8 2003-07-15 2:56 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Spreads her what????
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#9 2003-07-15 2:59 pm
- Farmerkev
- Official Dementor
- Moderator
- Registered: 2003-01-03
- Posts: 18622
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
No, it still bugs the smurf out of conservatives but neither party is going to do what's necessary so might as well swallow it down, sprout another ulcer and make the best of it.
Do your part to combat global warming.
Eat a cow.
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#10 2003-07-15 3:04 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Really, I think both parties are the same in this respect. Whatever policies they talk about, neither gives a rat's ass about the government's finances.
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#11 2003-07-15 3:12 pm
- XYZ
- Banned
- Registered: 2000-07-03
- Posts: 10881
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Really, I think both parties are the same in this respect. Whatever policies they talk about, neither gives a rat's ass about the government's finances.
Let's look at the facts, shall we?
Bush 1: set the last deficit record
Bush 2: setting a much higher record
there's really no need for all of this
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#12 2003-07-15 3:26 pm
- Jehannum
- Banned
- From: Albuquerque
- Registered: 1999-07-24
- Posts: 8404
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Really, I think both parties are the same in this respect. Whatever policies they talk about, neither gives a rat's ass about the government's finances.
Let's look at the facts, shall we?
Bush 1: set the last deficit record
Bush 2: setting a much higher record
Because, obviously, the budget changes enacted by a president take massive and direct effect mere seconds after being signed into law...
Your logic, it's like swiss cheese.
"Goodness he just keeps going and going. He's like the energizer bunny of stupid." - Neut
Your powers are useless! I'm wearing my tin-foil underwear!
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#13 2003-07-15 3:28 pm
- XYZ
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- Posts: 10881
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
there's really no need for all of this
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#14 2003-07-15 3:28 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34096
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Are you in the camp that thinks that Reagan and Bush gave us a strong economy, and it only showed when Clinton took office?
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#15 2003-07-15 4:00 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Really, I think both parties are the same in this respect. Whatever policies they talk about, neither gives a rat's ass about the government's finances.
Let's look at the facts, shall we?
Bush 1: set the last deficit record
Bush 2: setting a much higher record
Oh come on. Some Democrats have left massive deficits. Others haven't. Ditto for Republicans. Jesus, don't be so partisan.
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#16 2003-07-15 9:12 pm
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Because, obviously, the budget changes enacted by a president take massive and direct effect mere seconds after being signed into law...
Your logic, it's like swiss cheese.
Uh yes they do. This new deficit reflects the tax cuts from a month ago. When things are signed into law, they actually are law. It's not like there's some magical delay between the government spending money and the money being taken out of the budget.
The magnitude of this deficit is ABSOLUTELY AND COMPLETELY Bush's fault. Bush went into office with the largest surplus in the history (established by the crazy and economically irresponsible liberals) of the United States, and in three years, went to the largest deficit in history. There's no partisan spin you can put on that.
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#17 2003-07-15 10:11 pm
- Smoov Dude
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- Registered: 2002-10-10
- Posts: 139
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Yeah, we shouldn't have spent an extra penny on any national security or terrorism training or the military after 9/11
Man who runs sideways in airport is going to Bangkok.
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#18 2003-07-15 10:12 pm
- Tallgeese
- Sternly Advising
- From: Pool Party
- Registered: 2000-10-17
- Posts: 34096
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Yeah, we shouldn't have spent an extra penny on any national security or terrorism training or the military after 9/11
nice way to connect unrelated dots.
this excuse from Ari isn't fooling everyone anymore.
I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.
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#19 2003-07-15 11:24 pm
- gradient
- Member
- Registered: 2002-04-24
- Posts: 3101
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Are you in the camp that thinks that Reagan and Bush gave us a strong economy, and it only showed when Clinton took office?
I'm one of those crazy people that don't think Clinton was responsible for the economy any more than Bush is for the current one.
I recognize that the President is but 1/3 of the authority, Congress holding the other 2/3. The real determing factor being the business cycle and new technologies that emerge.
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#20 2003-07-15 11:35 pm
- Azzgunther
- Member
- From: Milwaukee, WI
- Registered: 2003-04-08
- Posts: 590
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Are you in the camp that thinks that Reagan and Bush gave us a strong economy, and it only showed when Clinton took office?
I'm one of those crazy people that don't think Clinton was responsible for the economy any more than Bush is for the current one.
I recognize that the President is but 1/3 of the authority, Congress holding the other 2/3. The real determing factor being the business cycle and new technologies that emerge.
Which would make Republicans 3/3 responsible then, correct? Our country has created this hole for itself by irresponsibly voting one party into exclusive power. Soon we'll feel the devastating effects of our mistakes.
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#21 2003-07-15 11:43 pm
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Bush is the undisputed leader of the Republican party. The Republicans are in complete control of all three branches of government. How is Bush not in charge of the economy? He got everything he wanted: tax cuts and more tax cuts.
I find it rather convenient that you, gradient, claim that no president has control over the economy in a situation where Democrats have done well while Republicans have sucked. It's not that the policy is wrong, it's that they have no control! It was the Republican Senate that got the economy in good shape during Clinton, but it's not the Republican's fault when the economy fell through this time! It's no one's fault! Except maybe the Democrats.
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#23 2003-07-15 11:58 pm
- ClayH
- Member
- From: Texas
- Registered: 2001-07-21
- Posts: 1556
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
"I'm currently fascinated how right-wingers who, ten years ago ranted and raved about the deficit and the legacy we were leaving our children, now say, "meh ... the deficit's no big deal."
No right-wingers are "cool" with this unbelievable deficit. Well I don't know any.
This is terrible. I don't want the smurfing tax cuts. Keep them. I'm libertarian-leaning, but I wouln't cut taxes unless I could afford to. It isn't just that our nation as a whole is in debt.... as individuals we are in debt too. The rule for staying out of debt is this: Don't spend what you don't have.
We are living beyond our means. The government is paying for too much extra crap we really don't need (NPR comes to mind), and a terrific amount of cash is wasted through military contractors who rip the nation off.
I promise, if (when) you elect me for president, I will get the budget under control. Hey I could run for office! I'll start as governer of Canada before I move up to the federal level. 
I'm going to leave it at that.
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#24 2003-07-16 4:59 am
- smilr
- Soldering Iron Savvy
- From: The Dalles OR, U. S. of Apple
- Registered: 2000-06-21
- Posts: 2869
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Yeah, we shouldn't have spent an extra penny on any national security or terrorism training or the military after 9/11
pretty close to accurate there - I say we should have poured some money into finding out exactly WHO was responsible (don't give me that al-qaeda / bin-laden crap - I agree that they are bad people / organizations, but I remain unconvinced as to their involvement in 9-11) then gone after them. No further, no need to beef up security at airports to the ridiculous level they were at post 9-11, no need to whip the country into a terrorism / patriotism frenzy that did JACK ALL but give too much power to the government (patriot act specifically was unnecessary).
That money would have been better spent on services and programs here in america, finding out who was responsible for 9-11 (not scapegoats), proving to everyone that our suspects for 9-11 are guilty, then dealing with them coldly, cleanly, and quickly.
smurf President Shrub.
There is some solace in knowing that some things just can't be attained by throwing piles of money at them in the name of corporate greed. --CaptKevMan
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#25 2003-07-16 7:42 am
Re: White House projects record $455 billion deficit
Hmm-- interesting comments, all.
Question: what happened to the balanced budget mandate that dominated the federal political debate so much during the 1990's? Does either party no longer believe that the government, just like Joe and Jane Citizen, should live within its means?
Hi Folks!
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