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#1 2003-12-23 9:06 am

cocoamix
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Registered: 2001-03-01
Posts: 7471

Scary Wal-Mart piece.

No company should be this powerful. Ever.

Warning: Long read.

I'd rather cut off a finger than  buy anything from them again.


Jingoism - Extreme and emotional nationalism, or chauvinism, often characterized by an aggressive foreign policy, accompanied by an eagerness to wage war.

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#2 2003-12-23 9:10 am

test
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From: Collingwood, Ont., CANADA
Registered: 2002-12-13
Posts: 5300

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

I make my own dill pickles and they kick Vlasic in the nuts for sport.


Patience is a virtue of the weak for it makes them stand still long enough for the strong to crush them with ease.

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#3 2003-12-23 10:35 am

Stop the Robots
I'm Jesus
From: Michigan
Registered: 2002-12-01
Posts: 6727

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

So, basically their going to ruin America's economy?


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#4 2003-12-23 10:44 am

test
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From: Collingwood, Ont., CANADA
Registered: 2002-12-13
Posts: 5300

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

I make my own dill pickles and they kick Vlasic in the nuts for sport.

And my pickles don't cost no $3 a gallon. Not even $3 Canadian fer an Imperial gallon. I grows my own cucumbers, my own dill, my own caraway seed and my own juniper berries. Gets my vinegar from a local manufacturer and uses maple sugar from local trees. I do buy salt from the grocery store but that's only 'cause I don't have an ocean in the back yard fer to render down sea water. Three dollars a gallon. smurf, that ain't no deal.


Patience is a virtue of the weak for it makes them stand still long enough for the strong to crush them with ease.

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#5 2003-12-23 12:41 pm

Wondering Mac User
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Registered: 2000-08-02
Posts: 1550

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Well, if it can bring a little joy in your heart, cocoamix, I'll tell you this: Yesterday, employees at the Saguenay Wal-Mart (In Qu


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#6 2003-12-23 12:47 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34095

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Well, if it can bring a little joy in your heart, cocoamix, I'll tell you this: Yesterday, employees at the Saguenay Wal-Mart (In Qu


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#7 2003-12-23 12:52 pm

Wondering Mac User
Member
Registered: 2000-08-02
Posts: 1550

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Thanks Tall for the infos.

Yep, it may be in Canada then. Nevertheless, labor laws are different in Qu


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#8 2003-12-23 3:32 pm

Saruman
Member
From: Richmond
Registered: 2002-03-17
Posts: 514

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

I have never purchased anything at WalMart.... ever.

I don't like the idea of paying less for something than it cost to make it in the U.S.---and killing yet another increment of somebody's job here. The pickle story was telling---people already only eat abou 60% of the quart jar and throw the rest away. Imagine how much of the gallon they will actually use before is spoils. Walmart trains consumers to be wasteful users of products. This is something the rest of the world makes fun of us for.

Shop at WalMart... America's place for cheap plastic crap you don't really need.

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#9 2003-12-23 4:12 pm

adndgamer
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From: Stevens Point, Wisconsin
Registered: 2000-03-25
Posts: 4979
Website

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

I don't buy from Wal-Mart because I feel like white trash when I shop there.


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#10 2003-12-23 4:16 pm

Farmerkev
Official Dementor
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Registered: 2003-01-03
Posts: 18622

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

You don't have to buy from walmart to receive the benefits. You local merchants have had to cut their prices to the bone in an effort to compete usually.


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#11 2003-12-23 7:22 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away.

Maybe Wal-Mart will start selling Mac G5 for $299.   big_smile


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#12 2003-12-23 7:32 pm

Ender Wiggins
Banned
From: Burning things with my eyes
Registered: 2003-08-13
Posts: 1491
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Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away.

Maybe Wal-Mart will start selling Mac G5 for $299.   big_smile

Great. Then Apple will go out of business with Vlasic.

Excellent idea  hmm

Ender


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#13 2003-12-23 7:55 pm

Enigma
Member
From: Trapped in a David Lynch Movie
Registered: 1999-02-24
Posts: 2955

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Oh man I love a good anti-walmart thread. I agree with all of that article, except this statement:

Wal-Mart wields its power for just one purpose: to bring the lowest possible prices to its customers

There's more to it than that. They exist for power. Walmart wants it all. They are the modern equal of the Roman Empire, ruthless and killing anone who opposes them. They will not rest until:

1. There is no other place to buy anything, and I mean anything.
2. Their employees live in company owned housing, and are paid in company scrip, just like the coal miners of more than a century ago. (Writing this down Saruman?)
3. Unions exist only in memory. All traces of employee unions have been erased from all history.
4. Nothing will be manufactured in this country at all. Not a bicycle, not a t-shirt, not a single toy, not a pair of bluejeans or even a bar of soap. Nope, nothing. 

I am very concerned about where this country is headed.

Low prices?  As I have said before, I tell people I don't shop in walmart, because it's too expensive.

Cocoamix, here is a link you might find interesting

You've all seen the ads for Walmart, where they depict their employees doing great things for their communities?  And how they cherish "american values" so much?  Uh-huh. The right to have union representation is an american value. If those are real walmart employees, I would like to meet them, on the job, wearing the blue smocks, while they are punching in.

Oh yeah, walmart has what amounts to a secret police force which rivals the East German STASI in their viciousness. This is why so many are scared to death.  Store level managers and supervisors are nothing more than two-bit, cowardly thugs, hiding under cover of authority,  (Yeah, I am a little pissed. Sorry)

Anyone else think this whole thing with Walmart is going to turn bloody in a few years?

Enigma.


"Wait....Worry..."

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#14 2003-12-23 8:23 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

4. Nothing will be manufactured in this country at all. Not a bicycle, not a t-shirt, not a single toy, not a pair of bluejeans or even a bar of soap. Nope, nothing.

Would that be a bad thing?  If manufacturing has become a low-margin, high-risk, bottom-end sector of our economy, why not let it be farmed out of the US?  Let other countries provide the low-pay laborers, deal with the environmental challenges and absorb the low end jobs, while the US jobs retain the high-end jobs.

Like adding robots to the manufacturing line for cars.  Does it kill jobs or create jobs?  It kills a manufacturing job and creates a job for the robot programmers, robot servicers, industrial engineers, operators, etc, who have to now make and keep the robots running, which is a high-end job.  So did we lose a job or create a job?  We lost the low end, but added the high end.  When manufacturing jobs go overseas, the high-end jobs that require high skill levels, education and training stay right here in the USA, and the low end jobs go overseas.  Is that a bad thing?


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#15 2003-12-23 8:32 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34095

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

So, um, what happens to the millions of people without high skills and education?


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#16 2003-12-23 8:56 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

So, um, what happens to the millions of people without high skills and education?

Of course, we are talking big picture here - slow shifts in the nature of the economy over long periods of time - say 1 or 2 decades.

Children entering high-school will slowly watch their parents who have jobs in manufacturing stuggling more and more, they will read stories in the newspaper about the critical importance of obtaining advanced skills and education in the new american economy, and more and more will seek that training and education.  It is already happening.  More people are graduating from college and trade schools than ever before.  Those who ignore the warning signs, veg out in high school and in the early 20s depending on the robust american manufacturing economy to bail them out with a high-paying, low-skill jobs rather than seeking the training and education they will need to be sucessful will have problems.  This is the nature of a capitalistic society.

I see nothing wrong with a higher skilled labor force in the US.


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#17 2003-12-23 8:57 pm

Tallgeese
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From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34095

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Seriously, not everyone is capable of skilled labor. What of them?


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#18 2003-12-23 8:58 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

So, um, what happens to the millions of people without high skills and education?

Duhhh - I should have realized that you were setting me up.   wink

I should have said - They can work at Wal-Mart!   big_smile

Thanks for the assist.


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#19 2003-12-23 9:01 pm

Ender Wiggins
Banned
From: Burning things with my eyes
Registered: 2003-08-13
Posts: 1491
Website

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.



You've all seen the ads for Walmart, where they depict their employees doing great things for their communities?  And how they cherish "american values" so much?  Uh-huh. The right to have union representation is an american value. If those are real walmart employees, I would like to meet them, on the job, wearing the blue smocks, while they are punching in.

Oh yeah, walmart has what amounts to a secret police force which rivals the East German STASI in their viciousness. This is why so many are scared to death.  Store level managers and supervisors are nothing more than two-bit, cowardly thugs, hiding under cover of authority,  (Yeah, I am a little pissed. Sorry)

Anyone else think this whole thing with Walmart is going to turn bloody in a few years?

Enigma.

I couldn't agree more. This country needs to be able to produce for itself. What happens if our trade treaties etc go south, where would that leave us- screwed. IMO we should be making as many products in the US as we are having made in other countries as a saftey feature so to speak. In many cases though (like where I go to shop) Wal-mart has become the only option, buying out the competition etc.

Walmart must go.

Ender


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#20 2003-12-23 9:02 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Seriously, not everyone is capable of skilled labor. What of them?

Do you have a problem with low-skill laborers receiving low-paying jobs?

That is the nature of the beast.  The days of low-skill, high paying jobs of the 50s, 60s and 70s are gone.  There are plenty of low-skill jobs in the US.  They just don't come with a high-paying pay check.  These seems extremly fair and sound to me.  Each person is rewarded in proportion to their skills and value that they bring to the economy.  It is harsh in some ways, but it has been proven time and again that it is a necessary system to sustain a robust, stable society and economy.


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#21 2003-12-23 9:05 pm

Tallgeese
Sternly Advising
From: Pool Party
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34095

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

You didn't say "low skilled laborers will keep low paying jobs" you said that low skill jobs will stop existing.


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

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#22 2003-12-23 9:07 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

What happens if our trade treaties etc go south, where would that leave us- screwed.

Where would that leave the countries that have grown accustomed to producing goods with low-cost, low-skill labor, and turning around and selling those products to the highest dollar buyers they could hope to find - US consumers.  Even at Wal-Mart prices.  They need us as much as we need them.

The idea of trying to balance trade or manufacturing as you have suggested is as silly as the gold standard tie to the US currency that existed into the 1960s - it would only hold us back.


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#23 2003-12-23 9:09 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5587

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

You didn't say "low skilled laborers will keep low paying jobs" you said that low skill jobs will stop existing.

Sorry - I didn't mean to imply all low-paying jobs will dissappear.  I don't see that every happening.  Do you?

I was refering only to the low-skilled, high-paying jobs in manufacturing that have historically existed in this country.  Sorry for the confusion.


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#24 2003-12-23 11:37 pm

cocoamix
Member
Registered: 2001-03-01
Posts: 7471

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Incidentally, Wired Magazine published the list of the worst companies to work for in the US regarding employee privacy.

Wal-Mart was rated the second worst, behind Pharmaceutical giant Eli Lilly.

Managers clandestinely recording conversations between co-workers was commonplace, among other draconian niceties.


Jingoism - Extreme and emotional nationalism, or chauvinism, often characterized by an aggressive foreign policy, accompanied by an eagerness to wage war.

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#25 2003-12-24 2:20 pm

Enigma
Member
From: Trapped in a David Lynch Movie
Registered: 1999-02-24
Posts: 2955

Re: Scary Wal-Mart piece.

Last year, a man entered the Walmart super store in Hudson MA, on a typical saturday afternoon. His purpose in going there was simple enough:  He wanted to buy some undershirts, shaving cream, and some other basic items. Pretty simple, right?

What happened:  as he strolled through the enormous store, he kept noticing people following him. Not ordinary "associates', but management employees, with the walmart name tags, but without the smocks. They started asking him if he "was finding everything okay", and "do you need any help". Every time he turned a corner, there was another one. This continued until he paid for his items and left.

Efficient customer service?  Nope. The problem was that he was proudly wearing a t-shirt which bore the logo of "Teamsters local 25".   Once spotted, they wanted to make damn sure he had zero contact with any of the associates. They were extremely careful so as not to cross the line.


Side note:  This particular Walmart was not built until Digital Equipment corp, once a large employer in the town of Hudson, was gone.   I think that pretty much sums up what is happening.


Enigma


"Wait....Worry..."

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