Forums | MacLife

I actually don't mind Corona. It's good to drink when it's stinking hot, and I can reuse the bottles for home brewing.

Come to Central Texas.  Have some Shiner Bock.

Walmart is not the cause for quite a bit of what your all ranting about.
It may be a cancer, but we are the ones that caused it.
It's comforting to be able to point a finger and yell 'look what those bastards have done and are doing!'.
Guess what, look in the mirror, you've gotten exactly what you asked for.

Walmart is not the cause for quite a bit of what your all ranting about.
It may be a cancer, but we are the ones that caused it.
It's comforting to be able to point a finger and yell 'look what those bastards have done and are doing!'.
Guess what, look in the mirror, you've gotten exactly what you asked for.

How have I done this?

You as in the American public.

then who do you blame or do you think it's more a function of the economic system that demands we all have to become more efficient and do more for less?

There are a lot of people to blame, people who don't care about anything but convenience and pricetags. There are city governments to blame who open the door and roll out the tax-free carpet for them. But there are plenty of citizens who fight them, who will not shop at Wal-Mart for any reason, who have to fight their own government's greed to stop them.

And you feelings on the economic principle that goods must become cheaper and workers need to become more efficient?

Walmart has it's place in the world.  I remember posting something similar in another walmart thread, but where else can you pick up items like computer parts or do your grocery shopping at 3AM?

My only experience with knowning someone who worked at Wal-Mart is through my sister.  A few years ago my parents and sis lost their home to a fire.  Walmart apparently has a program in place for employees who endure hardships such as what my sister went through.  The store she worked at donated clothes, food, and cash to my family to help them through the rebuilding process.  The employees made similar donations on their own outside of the company.  My sister worked there until she left for college (about 2 years) and didn't really have any problem with the way she was treated.

I can see where others in this thread are coming from, and I respect your opinions, but my sister's personal experience with working there is much different than what most others are discussing in this thread.

When you're hired at Wal-Mart, you're forced to watch anti-Union propaganda VHS tapes and take tests.

In the tapes, you're instructed to notify a supervisor immediately if any employee talks about unions.

When you're hired at Wal-Mart, you're forced to watch anti-Union propaganda VHS tapes and take tests.

In the tapes, you're instructed to notify a supervisor immediately if any employee talks about unions.

That is bullsmurf,. Okay, that is strong, let me say I didn't see or hear any of that, and I was a supervisor at one point.

Hello, I am an ex Wal*Mart associate. I am by no means the defender of Wal*Mart, they do much that pisses me off, and although I agree that Wal*Mart has done some of what has been said; don't believe for a minute that corporations wouldn't be out sourcing to other countries that provide cheaper labor. Wal*Mart makes deals with manufactures, but by no means do they have to accept the terms. Wal*Mart is going to sell Vlasic or Wilson no matter what. I believe Wilson was another company making deals with Wal*Mart which put them in a bind Financially. American businesses have been moving to other countries for years, many of which have little to do with Wal*Mart. It is more cost effective, and puts more money in the shareholders pockets. It is the board of directors of American companies that are causing these economic issues and the loss of American jobs.

I am against unions but I believe that is more of regional issue, they are less vigorous in the south, I guess. I just feel that they drive up cost of operation and cost to consumers in many industries unnecessarily. I would never be in a union personally. I do know that unions have there place, but how effective are they, teachers and law enforcement still make squat. Also, when airlines are struggling to stay afloat, pilots making 3 digits are striking. These are just my opinions, I am in no means researching this, and not making claims, just observations.

I don't believe you.  Next you'll deny that WalMart upper managment in each store sacrifices foreign laborers to the blood gods each full moon.

Well of course they sacrifice to the blood gods each full moon, but not laborers that wouldn't be cost effective. They prefer the blood sacrifice of children.

Oh wait that is there labor force!?!

Handicapped children...

And, when I caught crab lice from hanging my coat in the employee breakroom, I quit. Its goods (particularly the food in regular stores and clothing) are low-quality.

How is it Wal*Mart's fault you caught crab lice?


The goods are no different than any other grocery store.

But yes their labor utilization practices are lacking in human dignity, if one doesn't like it one should quit. I did.

Back on topic: Okay, Wal*Mart is a discount retail chain. No one expects their pay to be exorbitant. But why treat the employees so badly?  Why try to brainwash them with videos and the infamous "Walmart cheer"? Why cultivate an atmosphere of fear, by having employees spy on each other?
Does all of that help make for "always low prices"?  I'm told that in any given Walmart store, a certain number of blue-smocked associates are, in fact, internal security agents, monitoring employees. Wow, shades of "The Prisoner". Again, what to they think they are accomplishing with this?

Enigma.

Their pay is on par with any retail chain such as target or k-mart. There are stores that play with hours, and full-time and part-time schedules, to make payroll every month, but not all stores have to. The reason for labor games is that, the suits, cut payroll constantly even when you need to be hiring.

I have worked for good Wal*Marts and bad Wal*Marts, they are not all the same. It depends on the management Some people just suck. I have worked while Sam Walton was alive and after he Passed. When Sam was alive, it was really a nice place to work. The staff was not treated to the payroll games, and associates had high morale. Sam loved his employees, and he felt that there should be to many employees, rather than not enough. Now you go into a store it is hard to find help. When same was alive, you could not walk down an isle, without getting help. When Sam was alive if you stayed with company long term and enrolled in the profit sharing program, you retire or leave after 20 years with a really nice nest egg. Some people have retired with millions.

When the suits took over the change felt immediate, Employee cuts, payroll cuts, irrational use of employee utilization all causing serious morale issues. The suits started expanding and updating stores quicker than Sam would have allowed. They started building in urban areas, and areas Sam had made off limits. This started to cut into profit sharing but not excessively.  Then the huge kick in the teeth. Lets expand into Canada. Profit sharing tanked, employees close to retiring or had 20 years lost nearly all there profit sharing.

I agree the modern Wal*Mart, is a piece of smurf, but it hasn't always been so. I think like all corporations the blame is on the board.

Oh, Wal*Mart doe not have security guys in smocks watching employees, they do have mystery shoppers that shop in the store and make sure that the employees are nice, friendly, and helpful. When Sam was around it was a good thing with nice prizes for employees that do things correctly. This is just quality control and nothing wrong with it all business  do it I am sure. Now that the suits are in control, I am sure the rewards for mystery shopper performance is greatly lessened.

There are, security shoppers, that patrol some stores and watch for shop lifters. This is neccessary with some of the degenerates that live in the world today. Individual stores can lose up to a million dollars, in a year in shrinkage.

When the suits took over the change felt immediate,,,,

That's certainly not the first time something like that has happened. When Edwin Land died, Polaroid began it's downward slide.  The company grew enormous during the 1960's, on the rise of it's cameras with self-processing film.
This was also a time when a lot of big companies in Massachusetts became unionized.

Land kept the unions out of polaroid. How did he do this? Simple, he treated the employees as family, showering them with benefits which were unheard of then, and which are becoming a thing of the past now. Health insurance benefits for example:  A full time Polaroid employee, circa 1972, had fully paid Blue cross / Blue shield master medical coverage, all paid for by the company. Land did not permit time clocks, and the hours for a lot (not all) of jobs were flexible.  The company also gave paid holidays such as patriot's day, at a time when no one else did.   At their height, Polaroid employed about 20,000 people.  During their history, Union organizers came and went, but the employees were happy without it.

Another great company was Digital. Heh, there was a joke back in the 80's: There are people who want to work at Digital, and people who do.  They had the same philosophy about treating their employees as family. Wang Laboratories (Who Remembers Wang?) was another fine company to work for, at least by reputation.

I'm not suggesting that a discount retailer pay enormous wages. They can't, really.  But treating employees well, giving them the benefits they need to live comfortably today? I see no reason why that cannot be done.

mjsmitho, don't some members of the Walton family have some say regarding how the company is run?

Enigma.

So, um, what happens to the millions of people without high skills and education?

Of course, we are talking big picture here - slow shifts in the nature of the economy over long periods of time - say 1 or 2 decades.

Children entering high-school will slowly watch their parents who have jobs in manufacturing stuggling more and more, they will read stories in the newspaper about the critical importance of obtaining advanced skills and education in the new american economy, and more and more will seek that training and education.<snip>.  This is the nature of a capitalistic society.

I see nothing wrong with a higher skilled labor force in the US.

====================
Czachorski,
I've seen your posts and exchanged a few with you before, I think you've been *(up to now)* "one of the best" on this forum.  So don't get me wrong when I say that what you say in this case is definitely not the whole story.  I mean vis-a-vis the supposed "benefits" of having jobs exported and the claim that there'll be more and better (American) jobs to replace them.

I say this because over the past 20 years we have seen the formation of the so-called "Service Based Ecnomony" where more and more FORMERLY high skilled, high paid people are forced into subsistence level pay scales under the thumbs of Wal Mart, et al.

As for younger people seeking more education -- that's hardly the case either; the number increases in college grads you refer to can be exlpained mainly on the basis of increased population.  And it's virtually unanimous: the "quality" of education in America is still on a serious down-slide that has everyone alarmed.

You are like I used to be -- I believed what the politicians and so-called authorities told us, that we have (as you put it) "a Capitalist economy." 
This is UNTRUE, since corporations have gained so much influence in all levels of government that they provide both the bulk of financing for election campaigns AND the "golden parachutes" for those politicians (like our current president) who're going to "retire" into posh corporate jobs after "public service."   

A prime example: Pres. Bush has always "supported the Free Market Economy" and economic "Globalization" too.  BUT -- he just issued a warning to all those involved in the trade of prescription drugs from Canada.  In one swoop -- he violates the "Competition is Good" clause in Free Market Theory, he stomps on "International Trade" and of course, he SUPPORTS the protectionist campaign of the U.S. drug manufacturers which protects their unbelievably huge profits.  (And don't think the drug makes REALLY spend all they claim for "research.")  The truth is: he's a statist and operates what is technically known as a "fascist economy."

With respect: I urge you to read the book, "Nickel and Dimed" -- which accurately depicts what happens to adult Americans who DON'T happen to be interested in these high tech jobs we're all supposed to be loving and enjoying.  You see, the other part of this "pro-Capitalist" yadda-yadda that's purposely one-sided is that they never mention that it's  impossible to make a LIVING wage from providing ESSENTIAL services that we all depend on (like putting all that food -- including pickles-- on store shelves). 

Finally, the Wal-Mart (and it's the same for all such chains) claim that they MUST suppress wages and benefits to "compete" is baloney.  What if ALL these huge corporations were forced to pay a real living wage and necessary benefits?  Then they'd ALL  have the same labor overhead!  But of course, then consumers would have to face up the the REAL cost of putting food on the table, instead of having it provided by Slave Labor. (Don't panic, in reality, these corporations would simply absorb some of this labor cost from their profits.)

I'll close with a little bit of interesting "History" -- my stepfather (back in the '50s) was a residential delivery MILKMAN.  I used to "jump" deliveries on his route -- which included the home of the VLASIC family (in Lathrup Village, MI.).    In those days -- this "low skill job" enabled him to support a family of SEVEN in a house he bought himself. Mind you -- he'd reached only the 8th grade in school.   (No, no one yap about birth control -- I was a step child, we had two other kids who were adopted.)

At school, I was given an aptitude test which indicated I should go to college for a degree in Natural Science.  I asked how much money I could expect to make in that field.  The figure given me was 36% LESS THAN my stepfather was making delivering milk & cottage cheese.   So, one of the GREATEST things about this country is that EVERYONE has the chance to earn a living wage -- unless we let these corporations and their financial hostage politicians take it away. 

Arguments about "pro or anti" Capitalism are a propaganda scare tactic -- it's the ABUSE of this essential economic theory which is KILLING US.