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#126 2004-01-13 4:26 pm
- everlong554
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- Registered: 2003-12-24
- Posts: 6865
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Anyway, getting back to the topic of this thread: an author who has, to my view, been discredited, has called Muhammad a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who commits acts of cruelty in order to intimidate or otherwise terrorize a group of people. That's an extremely serious word to use, and I'll need lots of evidence to support that -- and I don't want to have to wade through pages of religious texts to find them
It's hard not to describe what is in the kuran and hadiths without using the words in them to back it up. But as to your definition of a terrorist here's a perfect example (and I'll try to use as much of my own words as possible):
After the Muslims drove the Quynuqa jews from their homes in terror and attacked the caravan in Badr and began bragging about the Jews that were killed one of them Ka
"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"
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#127 2004-01-13 4:41 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
This is offensive to peaceful muslims but probably right on for the terrorists. Please read at least the home page before posting. thanks
To me it's old news. I've been to that site several times in the past.
But, however, I did get the impression that Muhammad was a warrior prophet. Quite the contrast to Jesus Christ, who was a "prophet of peace."
It's difficult for me to approve of a faith-based society that advocates oppression the way Muslims seem to. It becomes very clear that Islam has to evolve into a faith based uon peace and understanding, rather than the posture that the fundies are taking.
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#128 2004-01-13 4:43 pm
- everlong554
- Member
- Registered: 2003-12-24
- Posts: 6865
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Anyway, getting back to the topic of this thread: an author who has, to my view, been discredited, has called Muhammad a terrorist. A terrorist is a person who commits acts of cruelty in order to intimidate or otherwise terrorize a group of people. That's an extremely serious word to use, and I'll need lots of evidence to support that -- and I don't want to have to wade through pages of religious texts to find themIt's hard not to describe what is in the kuran and hadiths without using the words in them to back it up. But as to your definition of a terrorist here's a perfect example (and I'll try to use as much of my own words as possible):
After the Muslims drove the Quynuqa jews from their homes in terror and attacked the caravan in Badr and began bragging about the Jews that were killed one of them Ka
"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"
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#129 2004-01-13 4:50 pm
- OttoMan!
- Member
- From: LSU - National Champions! Scre
- Registered: 2001-07-20
- Posts: 172
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
This is offensive to peaceful muslims but probably right on for the terrorists. Please read at least the home page before posting. thanks
To me it's old news. I've been to that site several times in the past.
But, however, I did get the impression that Muhammad was a warrior prophet. Quite the contrast to Jesus Christ, who was a "prophet of peace."
It's difficult for me to approve of a faith-based society that advocates oppression the way Muslims seem to. It becomes very clear that Islam has to evolve into a faith based uon peace and understanding, rather than the posture that the fundies are taking.
Nice post. I agree with you completely.
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#130 2004-01-13 6:34 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Based on the fact that he and his group of followers attacked caravans, stole the loot and raped the women I'd say he falls more closely under the "Bandit" category than the "terrorist" one. A glorified thief, rather than a terrorist.
But that's just my impression based on the quotes in this thread so far. I can't say that I've actually read the Koran (which is why I've been pretty quiet in this thread).
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#131 2004-01-13 6:48 pm
- OttoMan!
- Member
- From: LSU - National Champions! Scre
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- Posts: 172
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Based on the fact that he and his group of followers attacked caravans, stole the loot and raped the women I'd say he falls more closely under the "Bandit" category than the "terrorist" one. A glorified thief, rather than a terrorist.
It's hard not to describe what is in the kuran and hadiths without using the words in them to back it up. But as to your definition of a terrorist here's a perfect example (and I'll try to use as much of my own words as possible):
After the Muslims drove the Quynuqa jews from their homes in terror and attacked the caravan in Badr and began bragging about the Jews that were killed one of them Ka
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#132 2004-01-13 7:00 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Aha. Right. I seem to have missed the posts on this page. 
Bandit and terrorist, then.
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#133 2004-01-13 7:37 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
The question marks are there to let you know that I wasn't sure and is up for discussion.
Try this: Eater of Babies...Johnny Depp a cannibal???
Or try this:Islaam opposes any form of indiscriminate violence. The Qur
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#134 2004-01-13 10:11 pm
- everlong554
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- Registered: 2003-12-24
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Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
The question marks are there to let you know that I wasn't sure and is up for discussion.
Try this: Eater of Babies...Johnny Depp a cannibal???
Or try this:Islaam opposes any form of indiscriminate violence. The Qur
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#135 2004-01-13 10:17 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Id do some reading on the prophet. You might be shocked and amazed (and not in a good way)
I'd do some reading.
Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.
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#136 2004-01-13 10:19 pm
- everlong554
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Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Id do some reading on the prophet. You might be shocked and amazed (and not in a good way)
I'd do some reading.
sorry...my typing can be less than perfect.
"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"
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#137 2004-01-13 11:08 pm
- jaxbrokenheart
- Member
- From: St. Louis
- Registered: 2003-02-13
- Posts: 4586
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
A couple pages ago, someone posted this link about the conducts of war.
Because the goal of jihad is the call to Islam; not territorial conquest or plunder
The plunder has already been widely discussed, but what about the territorial conquest? How can you say that they don't care for territorial conquest? From 622AD (when the religion began), they pushed north, east, and west from Mecca (which was taken in 628AD conquering lands .
-They went west and took over most of North Africa, predominately Christian at the time. At that point (as they came towards the Atlantic O.), they turned north towards S. France.
-They pushed north to Christendom (Byzantine Empire). Ultimately, they caused Christendom to unite and eventually respond (first crusade being 400 years after the up-rise of the Islamic invasions).
-And, they pushed east toward Persia.
So, how is this not territorial conquest? They weren't attacked by anyone from W. Africa, Byzantium, or Persia.
To further quote from the Koran which is in the site mentioned above:
Qur'an provides the basis for "ius in bello" (justice in war) considerations: "And fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not transgress limits, for God loves not the transgressors" (2:190).
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#138 2004-01-14 5:39 pm
- everlong554
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- Registered: 2003-12-24
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Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Yet some more evidence that the prophet is a TERRORIST:
Tabari IX:42
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#139 2004-01-14 5:56 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Yet some more evid---
diediediediediediediediediedie
Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.
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#140 2004-01-14 6:41 pm
- everlong554
- Member
- Registered: 2003-12-24
- Posts: 6865
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
A couple pages ago, someone posted this link about the conducts of war.
Because the goal of jihad is the call to Islam; not territorial conquest or plunderThe plunder has already been widely discussed, but what about the territorial conquest? How can you say that they don't care for territorial conquest? From 622AD (when the religion began), they pushed north, east, and west from Mecca (which was taken in 628AD conquering lands .
-They went west and took over most of North Africa, predominately Christian at the time. At that point (as they came towards the Atlantic O.), they turned north towards S. France.
-They pushed north to Christendom (Byzantine Empire). Ultimately, they caused Christendom to unite and eventually respond (first crusade being 400 years after the up-rise of the Islamic invasions).
-And, they pushed east toward Persia.
So, how is this not territorial conquest? They weren't attacked by anyone from W. Africa, Byzantium, or Persia.
To further quote from the Koran which is in the site mentioned above:
Qur'an provides the basis for "ius in bello" (justice in war) considerations: "And fight in God's cause against those who wage war against you, but do not transgress limits, for God loves not the transgressors" (2:190).
I agree with you 100%.
Here's a few quotes to buttress your case (though schnicky may not like them)
Ishaq:572
"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"
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#141 2004-01-14 7:01 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
I dub thee... EverSchlong4:20.
Pothead. 
Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.
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#142 2004-01-14 7:06 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Are these all really quotes from the Koran, everlong205? I haven't read the Koran; I'm somewhat aghast at what you're posting here.
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#143 2004-01-14 7:20 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Since wer're copying and pasting, I may as well have a go:
Exodus 7:17
'Thus says the LORD, "By this you shall know that I am the LORD: behold, I will strike the water that is in the Nile with the staff that is in my hand, and it will be turned to blood.
Exodus 7:19
Then the LORD said to Moses, "Say to Aaron, 'Take your staff and stretch out your hand over the waters of Egypt, over their rivers, over their streams, and over their pools, and over all their reservoirs of water, that they may become blood; and there will be blood throughout all the land of Egypt, both in vessels of wood and in vessels of stone.' "
Exodus 7:20
So Moses and Aaron did even as the LORD had commanded. And he lifted up the staff and struck the water that was in the Nile, in the sight of Pharaoh and in the sight of his servants, and all the water that was in the Nile was turned to blood.
Exodus 7:21
The fish that were in the Nile died, and the Nile became foul, so that the Egyptians could not drink water from the Nile. And the blood was through all the land of Egypt.
Exodus 22:2
"If the thief is caught while breaking in and is struck so that he dies, there will be nobloodguiltiness on his account.
Exodus 22:3
"But if the sun has risen on him, there will be bloodguiltiness on his account. He shall surely make restitution; if he owns nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft.
Leviticus 7:2
'In the place where they slay the burnt offering they are to slay the guilt offering, and he shall sprinkle its blood around on the altar.
Leviticus 7:14
'Of this he shall present one of every offering as a contribution to the LORD; it shall belong to the priest who sprinkles the blood of the peace offerings.
Leviticus 7:26
'You are not to eat any blood, either of bird or animal, in any of your dwellings.
Leviticus 7:27
'Any person who eats any blood, even that person shall be cut off from his people.' "
Numbers 23:24
"Behold, a people rises like a lioness,
And as a lion it lifts itself;
It will not lie down until it devours the prey,
And drinks the blood of the slain."
Deuteronomy 32:42
'I will make My arrows drunk with blood,
And My sword will devour flesh,
With the blood of the slain and the captives,
From the long-haired leaders of the enemy.'
Deuteronomy 32:43
"Rejoice, O nations, with His people;
For He will avenge the blood of His servants,
And will render vengeance on His adversaries,
And will atone for His land and His people."
Jeremiah 46:10
For that day belongs to the Lord GOD of hosts,
A day of vengeance, so as to avenge Himself on His foes;
And the sword will devour and be satiated
And drink its fill of their blood;
For there will be a slaughter for the Lord GOD of hosts,
In the land of the north by the river Euphrates.
Jeremiah 48:10
"Cursed be the one who does the LORD'S work negligently,
And cursed be the one who restrains his sword from blood.
Ezekiel 16:38
"Thus I will judge you like women who commit adultery or shed blood are judged; and I will bring on you the blood of wrath and jealousy.
Ezekiel 18:13
he lends money on interest and takes increase; will he live? He will not live! He has committed all these abominations, he will surely be put to death; his blood will be on his own head.
Ezekiel 21:32
'You will be fuel for the fire; your blood will be in the midst of the land. You will not be remembered, for I, the LORD, have spoken.' "
1 Peter 1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ and be sprinkled with His blood: May grace and peace be yours in the fullest measure.
1 Corinthians 10:16
Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ?
Complete with randomly bolded passages.
Shocking, I say!
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#144 2004-01-14 7:47 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
This is fun! Let's have some more:
Genesis 2:17
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die."
Genesis 3:3
but from the fruit of the tree which is in the middle of the garden, God has said, 'You shall not eat from it or touch it, or you will die.' "
Numbers 14:35
'I, the LORD, have spoken, surely this I will do to all this evil congregation who are gathered together against Me. In this wilderness they shall be destroyed, and there they willdie.' "
Numbers 16:49
But those who died by the plague were 14,700, besides those who died on account of Korah.
Numbers 17:13
"Everyone who comes near, who comes near to the tabernacle of the LORD, must die. Are we to perish completely?"
Numbers 18:3
"And they shall thus attend to your obligation and the obligation of all the tent, but they shall not come near to the furnishings of the sanctuary and the altar, or both they and you will die.
Numbers 18:22
"The sons of Israel shall not come near the tent of meeting again, or they will bear sin anddie.
Numbers 18:32
'You will bear no sin by reason of it when you have offered the best of it. But you shall not profane the sacred gifts of the sons of Israel, or you will die.' "
Numbers 19:13
'Anyone who touches a corpse, the body of a man who has died, and does not purify himself, defiles the tabernacle of the LORD; and that person shall be cut off from Israel. Because the water for impurity was not sprinkled on him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is still on him.
Numbers 21:6
The LORD sent fiery serpents among the people and they bit the people, so that many people of Israel died.
Numbers 26:10
and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed them up along with Korah, when that company died, when the fire devoured 250 men, so that they became a warning.
Numbers 26:65
For the LORD had said of them, "They shall surely die in the wilderness." And not a man was left of them, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh and Joshua the son of Nun.
Deuteronomy 17:12
"The man who acts presumptuously by not listening to the priest who stands there to serve the LORD your God, nor to the judge, that man shall die; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.
Deuteronomy 18:20
'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shalldie.'
"If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel.
Deuteronomy 25:5
"When brothers live together and one of them dies and has no son, the wife of the deceased shall not be married outside the family to a strange man. Her husband's brother shall go in to her and take her to himself as wife and perform the duty of a husband's brother to her.
Joshua 10:11
As they fled from before Israel, while they were at the descent of Beth-horon, the LORD threw large stones from heaven on them as far as Azekah, and they died; there were more who died from the hailstones than those whom the sons of Israel killed with the sword.
udges 4:21
But Jael, Heber's wife, took a tent peg and seized a hammer in her hand, and went secretly to him and drove the peg into his temple, and it went through into the ground; for he was sound asleep and exhausted. So he died.
Judges 9:54
Then he called quickly to the young man, his armor bearer, and said to him, "Draw your sword and kill me, so that it will not be said of me, 'A woman slew him.' " So the young man pierced him through, and he died.
2 Samuel 1:15
And David called one of the young men and said, "Go, cut him down." So he struck him and he died.
2 Samuel 6:7
And the anger of the LORD burned against Uzzah, and God struck him down there for his irreverence; and he died there by the ark of God.
2 Samuel 10:18
But the Arameans fled before Israel, and David killed 700 charioteers of the Arameans and 40,000 horsemen and struck down Shobach the commander of their army, and he died there.
My, my! Such brutality!
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#145 2004-01-14 7:48 pm
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
You forgot to add emphasis to your "point" in that last post. 
Spirit was crushed; now is fading, But I want to help make things right.
Because I can see and I can feel, and you can see and you can feel
So why don't we both either stand up and fight
Or at least together we'll call it a night.
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#146 2004-01-14 7:51 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
You forgot to add emphasis to your "point" in that last post.
The point wasn't obvious enough?
Yeah, come to think of it, maybe it wasn't.
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#147 2004-01-14 8:00 pm
- everlong554
- Member
- Registered: 2003-12-24
- Posts: 6865
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Are these all really quotes from the Koran, everlong205? I haven't read the Koran; I'm somewhat aghast at what you're posting here.
They are from the kuran and the hadiths. More from the hadiths. The kuran is infinitely hard to read. It's out of order is missing chunks, has grammatical errors and is very hard to comprehend out of context. Much of what we know about the prophet though comes from the hadiths and are revered by muslims. In fact, the only history we know of muhammad comes from them.
"YOU DISGUST ME!!!!"
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#148 2004-01-14 8:06 pm
- OttoMan!
- Member
- From: LSU - National Champions! Scre
- Registered: 2001-07-20
- Posts: 172
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
ShnickyShnack: nice copy and paste 
You forgot to add all the love and salvation quotes in the Bible, (love)which are absent from the koran or any of the other books.
I find it interesting that you dislike christians but are fond of muslims. 
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#149 2004-01-14 8:15 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
ShnickyShnack: nice copy and paste
You forgot to add all the love and salvation quotes in the Bible, (love)which are absent from the koran or any of the other books.
I find it interesting that you dislike christians but are fond of muslims.
You don't get it, I guess.
The point is, it doesn't take much effort to paste a bunch of quotes from a religious text -- particularly one that dates from a brutal period of human history -- to make it seem savage.
I coulda sworn the point was obvious.
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#150 2004-01-14 8:34 pm
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::
- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Prophet of Doom...Muhammad a terrorist??
Here are some more quotes from the Hadith:
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, narrated:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Great and the Glorious Lord said (to angels): Whenever My bondsman intends to commit an evil, do not record it against him, but if he actually commits it, write it as one evil, and when he intends to do good but does not do it, take it down as one act of goodness, but if he does it, write down ten good deeds (in his record).
Hudhaifah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The angels took away the soul of a person who had lived among people who were before you. They (the angels) said: Did you do anything good? He said: No. They said: Try to recall. He said: I used to lend to people and order my servants to give respite to one in straitened circumstances and give allowance to the solvent. Thereupon, Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, said (to the angels): Give him allowance (I forgive him).
Abu Mas'ud, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: A person from people who lived before you was called to account (by Allah on the Day of Judgment) and no good was found in his account except this that he being a rich man had (financial) dealings with people and had commanded his servants to show leniency to the straitened ones. Upon this Allah, the Exalted and Majestic, said: We have more right to this, so overlook (his faults).
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, said: Who is a more wrong doer than one who tries to create a creation like Mine. Let him create an atom or a grain of wheat or a grain of barley.
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, stated: I am near to the thought of My servant as he thinks about Me, and I am with him as he remembers Me. And if he remembers Me in his heart, I also remember him in My Heart, and if he remembers Me in assembly I remember him in assembly, better than his (remembrance), and if he draws near Me by the span of a palm, I draw near him by a cubit, and if he draws near Me by a cubit I draw near him by the space (covered by) two arms. And if he walks towards Me, I rush towards him.
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: When Allah created the creation He put down in his Book, which is with Him upon the Throne: Verily, My mercy predominates My wrath.
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) relating from his Lord, the Exalted and Glorious, said: A servant committed a sin and he said: O Allah, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High said: My servant committed a sin and then he came to realize that he has a Lord Who forgives the sins and takes to account (the sinner) for the sin. He then again committed a sin and said: My Lord, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High, said: My servant committed a sin and then came to realize that he has a Lord Who would forgive his sin or would take (him) to account for the sin. He again committed a sin and said: My Lord, forgive me, and Allah, the Exalted and High said: My servant has committed a sin and then came to realize that he has a Lord Who forgives sins or takes (him) to account for his sin. O servant, do what you like. I have granted you forgiveness, \ 'Abdul-'Ala' \ is not certain whether he said: Do what you like in the third or the fourth time.
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, will take in His grip the earth on the Day of Judgment and He would roll up the sky in His right hand and shall say: I am the Lord; where are the sovereigns of the world?
Abdullah bin 'Umar, may Allah be pleased with them, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, would fold the Heavens on the Day of Judgment and then He would place them on His right hand and say: I am the Lord; where are the tyrants and where are the proud (today)? He would fold the earth (placing it) on the left hand and say: I am the Lord; where are the haughty and where are the proud (today)?
Abu Sa'id Al-Khudri, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said that Allah would say to the inmates of Paradise: O Dwellers of Paradise, and they would say in response: At your service and pleasure, our Lord, the good is in Your Hands. He (the Lord) would say: Are you well pleased now? They would say: Why should we not be pleased, O Lord, You have given us what You have not given to any of Your creatures? He would, however, say: May I give you (something) even more superior than that? And they would say: O Lord, what can be more excellent than this? And He would say: I will cause My pleasure to alight upon you and I will never be afterwards annoyed with you.
Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: There was a dispute between Hell and Paradise and Hell said: The haughty and the arrogant would find abode in me. And Paradise said: The meek and the humble would find their abode in me. Thereupon Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, (addressing Hell) said: You are (the means of) My punishment by which I punish those whom I wish of My servants. (And addressing the Paradise) He said: You are only My Mercy by means of which I will show mercy to those whom I wish, but each one of you would have its fill.
Hmm ... pretty mellow stuff, really.
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