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ShnickyShnack · 2004-12-09 12:21 pm

I keep hearing about important people (okay, important American people) such as President Bush referring to their conversations (or messages) from God.

My question is, and it's in all seriousness, how is a moral, fallible, flawed human being -- which we all are, of course -- supposed to know when it's God that's talking to them?

Even supposing there's a supernatural souce of the voices (and not merely psychological), how is one to know that it's the fellow Upstairs, and not Down? Satan would guise himself in a fair-seeming disguise, would he not?

In fact, wouldn't devoutly religious believers be easier to deceive than secular folks? If "God" tells the president to invade Iraq, how can we be 100% sure it's not the devil?

And if we can't be 100% sure, should these communiques not be discarded as a source for policy decisions?

stoned · 2004-12-09 12:45 pm

bush is insane if he thinks he can talk to "god" and have "god" help him run the country. bush may as well have a stuffed teddy bear that he talks to.

that is what scares the smurf out of me.... someone who puts conversations in his head above common sense and logic. someone who doesn't think "what is the best way to solve this" but "god, show me the way to solve this".

everyone knows that i am pretty anti organized religion, but i am all for spiritualness- just not when that spirit is allowed to run the country. bush is a human... MAYBE (i'll concede a maybe) he does have a personal relationship with a god. MAYBE that god is giving him advice and helping him get dressed in the mornings. but how can we take the chance that the voice isn't a fractured part of dubya's brain that is running the whole show?????????? the man might very well be insane and need constant supervision in some kind of a mental health facility.

Camp David · 2004-12-09 12:54 pm

My question is, and it's in all seriousness, how is a moral, fallible, flawed human being -- which we all are, of course -- supposed to know when it's God that's talking to them?

My answer, "in all seriousness," is that mankind knows God, knows how God speaks, and knows how God urges action. Thus we have faith that our leader (President George W. Bush) is divinely inspired. I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

Re: "a moral, fallible, flawed human being" : we are God's children and His creation; granted we are moral and fallible but I disagree with your "flawed" characterization. God does not make mistakes.

Camp David

Tallgeese · 2004-12-09 12:56 pm

My question is, and it's in all seriousness, how is a moral, fallible, flawed human being -- which we all are, of course -- supposed to know when it's God that's talking to them?
My answer, "in all seriousness," is that mankind knows God, knows how God speaks, and knows how God urges action. Thus we have faith that our leader (President George W. Bush) is divinely inspired. I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

Re: "a moral, fallible, flawed human being" : we are God's children and His creation; granted we are moral and fallible but I disagree with your "flawed" characterization. God does not make mistakes.

Camp David

Wouldn't someone so confident be a perfect target for Satan to speak to them?

laniel · 2004-12-09 1:03 pm

Jesus isn't called the Prince of Peace because He urges political leaders to engage in war; He is about love and inclusion. If Bush is listening to anybody, I'd bet it's not Christ.

Tetrachloride · 2004-12-09 1:04 pm

I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

Are we really saying that God and his Son are entirely different and that people who pray to Jesus are not getting the Big Cheese ?

mahakali · 2004-12-09 1:07 pm

Jesus isn't called the Prince of Peace because He urges political leaders to engage in war; He is about love and inclusion. If Bush is listening to anybody, I'd bet it's not Christ.

Yea, but the Daddy is quite the opposite.

laniel · 2004-12-09 1:11 pm

My answer, "in all seriousness," is that mankind knows God, knows how God speaks, and knows how God urges action. Thus we have faith that our leader (President George W. Bush) is divinely inspired. I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

You think W is divinely inspired? So he is as infallible as The Holy Bible? Or the Pope?
And you're placing him as equal to "God and his Son"? The Father, the Son and the Holy W.
I think you've slipped over the edge.

schragkraft · 2004-12-09 1:12 pm

Thus we have faith that our leader (President George W. Bush) is divinely inspired. I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

all right, another medievalistic dark age renaissence! you are aware that 'divine right granted by god' has been used since the dawn of christianity to justify unpopular actions and questionable leadership. why back in 680 AD, all one had to do was come from a royal line and pad the treasuries of the church (which in turn controlled the populace). voila, apathetic acceptance of incompetent and sinful monarchs.

i thought democracy and freedom created leaders 'inspired by the people'

Camp David · 2004-12-09 1:14 pm

You think W is divinely inspired?

If I didn't he wouldn't have got my vote, and my support.

Camp David

stoned · 2004-12-09 1:23 pm

My answer, "in all seriousness," is that mankind knows God, knows how God speaks, and knows how God urges action. Thus we have faith that our leader (President George W. Bush) is divinely inspired. I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.

you use the word "mankind" as if you speak for the whole world!!!! that's a good example of the religious ego-centrism that fundies experience- they are so in to their god that everyone else MUST agree with them and accept the things that they have convinced themselves to believe in.

that's why bush scares the smurf out of me. i am not joking. it chills me to the bone. and he has people like campy supporting him, so it drives him on. what i want to know is how many "camp davids" there are in america, compared to how many people feel the way i do. everyone i know feels the way i do, but that is innaccurate as i only hang out with the scum of the earth.

i am all for the separation of church and state and i want to take it to a new level- no religious affiliation for political leaders. leaders can be religious and i have no problem with it, they just MUST stop allowing religion and voices in their heads to drive policy and base big decisions on.

to comment on someone's else comment about how can we know it isn't satan talking to bush- it IS satan. god and satan are different sides of the same damn coin.

Camp David · 2004-12-09 1:25 pm

...he has people like campy supporting him...

Gee stoned... I think someone else in addition to me voted for him... shrug

Proost · 2004-12-09 1:28 pm

If it's god talking to him and telling him to do what he's doing now it goes against all my logic and understanding from who god is.

Since bush talks mostly about I and me only it must be satan.

Satan: I come here for me to take care of you with allot of power.
God: I come here for you to take care of you and without any power.

stoned · 2004-12-09 1:34 pm

...he has people like campy supporting him...
Gee stoned... I think someone else in addition to me voted for him...

i know that... i was just voicing my own frustrations with the fact that i don't know any religious bush supporters, so to me they seem kind of distant and blurry. i have no handle on how many people feel the way campy does..... it is like an unknown enemy.

Camp David · 2004-12-09 1:43 pm

...it is like an unknown enemy...

yeah... we conservatives have special codewords, hidden meetings, and all sorts of secret stuff...you should see the requirements for entry into our little "unknown" empire!

stoned... just accept our President!

Like the insurance jingle: shrug You're in good hands!

stoned · 2004-12-09 1:48 pm

stoned... just accept our President!

let's roleplay.

pretend that our new president openly admits to consulting satan, and earthly satanic leaders, in his every day decisions. he claims to talk to satan and lead the nation for satan's glory.

if i told you to just deal with it, campy, would you just deal with it?

Proost · 2004-12-09 1:51 pm

If satan is campy's god, ofcourse smile

Proost · 2004-12-09 1:54 pm

I trust God and his Son and, thus, our President.Camp David

You could easily make from the above sentence:

I thrust god and his son (satan) and thus our president.

Camp David · 2004-12-09 1:55 pm

... admits to consulting satan...

Do you honestly believe that? I don't.

I support him implicitly as he (the President) has demonstrated good judgment and worthy ideals. His intensions parallel my own. I believe most Americans feel as I do.

Someone Else · 2004-12-09 1:58 pm

...he has people like campy supporting him...
Gee stoned... I think someone else in addition to me voted for him...

Nope. I sure didn't!

And kindly don't elevate the office of an elected government official to the status of the Holy Trinity. I'm sure the Vatican would object to that as well.

stoned · 2004-12-09 2:10 pm

... admits to consulting satan...
Do you honestly believe that? I don't.

I support him implicitly as he (the President) has demonstrated good judgment and worthy ideals. His intensions parallel my own. I believe most Americans feel as I do.

campy seems to have issues separating the real world from a "pretend" scenario. i bet bush has those same problems.

Camp David · 2004-12-09 2:12 pm

i bet bush has those same problems.

Makes no difference now does it? He's President and you're..... not!

jeff-o · 2004-12-09 2:26 pm

i bet bush has those same problems.
Makes no difference now does it? He's President and you're..... not!

I makes a huge difference because he IS president!

joseph_tso · 2004-12-09 2:37 pm

Camp, how do you know Satan isn't fooling GWB? Only Satan would make war. Jesus was a hippy, you know.

stoned · 2004-12-09 2:43 pm

Camp, how do you know Satan isn't fooling GWB? Only Satan would make war. Jesus was a hippy, you know.

please don't be dragging the hippies down into this. sure jesus might have been a hippy, but he was the hippy that all the other hippies suspected was a narc.

Forums | MacLife

#1 2004-12-09 12:21 pm

God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#2 2004-12-09 12:45 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#3 2004-12-09 12:54 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#4 2004-12-09 12:56 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#5 2004-12-09 1:03 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#6 2004-12-09 1:04 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#7 2004-12-09 1:07 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#8 2004-12-09 1:11 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#9 2004-12-09 1:12 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#10 2004-12-09 1:14 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#11 2004-12-09 1:23 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#12 2004-12-09 1:25 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#13 2004-12-09 1:28 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#14 2004-12-09 1:34 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#15 2004-12-09 1:43 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#16 2004-12-09 1:48 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#17 2004-12-09 1:51 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#18 2004-12-09 1:54 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#19 2004-12-09 1:55 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#20 2004-12-09 1:58 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#21 2004-12-09 2:10 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#22 2004-12-09 2:12 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#23 2004-12-09 2:26 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#24 2004-12-09 2:37 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

#25 2004-12-09 2:43 pm

Re: God's talking to you? You sure about that?

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