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CapellaM44 · 2004-12-16 3:08 pm

I was 15 years old and outside picking peaches from the tree. I was on a concrete paito on top of a ladar. The dog ran buy and hit the ladar and it went down with me on it. I felt myself flowat towards the ground with a warm fuzzy feeling all over. I landed softly and where I should have broken my wrist the way I landed I got up without a scratch. I DO believe in ANGLESA!
Back when I still believed, I fell off a jungle gym and landed on my face, resulting in a nasty, but ultimately recoverable, injury. Where were those angelic washing men, then, huh? Huh?

Everybody's got a story that verifies their beliefs -- that's why they're called "anecdotes". And they don't translate very well to other people. Just like religious texts -- the Bible, the Qu'ran, et al. -- aren't really evidence for anyone who doesn't believe in them, either.

Believe what you like, I always say. But trying to get others to believe in what you believe in based on your experiences is a fool's game, imo.

I've always been taught that God meets you half way. I can pray for something like a new job, but if I don't go out and at least try to find one, nothing will happen. If you don't try to believe in God even a little you'll always fall flat on your face.

volk · 2004-12-16 3:52 pm

Believe what you like, I always say. But trying to get others to believe in what you believe in based on your experiences is a fool's game, imo.
Especially if you're in MiniThink.
Aye, that goes without saying, I'd think. But getting people to think in a way similar to you, based on evidence, a well-thought out and reasoned argument, and other rhetorical devices is a standard way of persuasion and discourse. Appealing to "belief" is, in a end, too personal and self-centric to have any real value to others, mostly. One is either preaching to the choir or trying to convert the fools who don't believe in the same thing.

Actually, personal experience is the evidence of faith, and as such, is the most compelling argument for it. The greatest testament to the existance of God are those people who through faith have experienced a complete change in their lives. Perhaps this "evidence" appears anecdotal when taken from an individual or very small sample group, but when it is viewed within the context of the millions of those who have shared similar experiences, it becomes far more compelling.

bird · 2004-12-16 5:18 pm

I was 15 years old and outside picking peaches from the tree. I was on a concrete paito on top of a ladar. The dog ran buy and hit the ladar and it went down with me on it. I felt myself flowat towards the ground with a warm fuzzy feeling all over. I landed softly and where I should have broken my wrist the way I landed I got up without a scratch. I DO believe in ANGLESA!
Back when I still believed, I fell off a jungle gym and landed on my face, resulting in a nasty, but ultimately recoverable, injury. Where were those angelic washing men, then, huh? Huh?

Everybody's got a story that verifies their beliefs -- that's why they're called "anecdotes". And they don't translate very well to other people. Just like religious texts -- the Bible, the Qu'ran, et al. -- aren't really evidence for anyone who doesn't believe in them, either.

Believe what you like, I always say. But trying to get others to believe in what you believe in based on your experiences is a fool's game, imo.
I've always been taught that God meets you half way. I can pray for something like a new job, but if I don't go out and at least try to find one, nothing will happen. If you don't try to believe in God even a little you'll always fall flat on your face.

You'll notice I had written "Back when I still believed ...", so at that time, I actually did. If you actually think angels swooped down from heaven and saved you from an owie, I really don't know what I could say to you. Except maybe that your last sentence is arrogant and presumptuous. A lot of people do not believe in your god and do quite well. They do not, in point of fact, "always fall flat on their face".

bird · 2004-12-16 5:26 pm

[Actually, personal experience is the evidence of faith, and as such, is the most compelling argument for it. The greatest testament to the existance of God are those people who through faith have experienced a complete change in their lives. Perhaps this "evidence" appears anecdotal when taken from an individual or very small sample group, but when it is viewed within the context of the millions of those who have shared similar experiences, it becomes far more compelling.

See, this is my secondary point: people who put this sort of rhetorical power in personal, anecdotal belief and people who don't are not even operating on the same wavelength. There's no common ground with which to "debate" or "discuss". Thus, your "argument" appears circular to me: you believe because you believe and the more you believe, the more reason you have for your belief. And my "argument" must seem like it's missing the essential element of faith to you. There's no agreement between the two sides about what constitutes the correct criteria for changing views. I can't be convinced unless I accept the power of revelation, and you cannot unless you accept the opposite. Stalemate.

I think that contributes to the political, social and religious divide we see in this country. shrug

CapellaM44 · 2004-12-16 6:00 pm

I was 15 years old and outside picking peaches from the tree. I was on a concrete paito on top of a ladar. The dog ran buy and hit the ladar and it went down with me on it. I felt myself flowat towards the ground with a warm fuzzy feeling all over. I landed softly and where I should have broken my wrist the way I landed I got up without a scratch. I DO believe in ANGLESA!
Back when I still believed, I fell off a jungle gym and landed on my face, resulting in a nasty, but ultimately recoverable, injury. Where were those angelic washing men, then, huh? Huh?

Everybody's got a story that verifies their beliefs -- that's why they're called "anecdotes". And they don't translate very well to other people. Just like religious texts -- the Bible, the Qu'ran, et al. -- aren't really evidence for anyone who doesn't believe in them, either.

Believe what you like, I always say. But trying to get others to believe in what you believe in based on your experiences is a fool's game, imo.
I've always been taught that God meets you half way. I can pray for something like a new job, but if I don't go out and at least try to find one, nothing will happen. If you don't try to believe in God even a little you'll always fall flat on your face.
You'll notice I had written "Back when I still believed ...", so at that time, I actually did. If you actually think angels swooped down from heaven and saved you from an owie, I really don't know what I could say to you. Except maybe that your last sentence is arrogant and presumptuous. A lot of people do not believe in your god and do quite well. They do not, in point of fact, "always fall flat on their face".

Forgive me if you took it in that way, for that is not what I met at all. I'm not sure how I can explain faith for as you said "you once believed" I believe because I experience Him from time to time when I need Him most. Half the time I'm not even really looking to Him for an answer. But a little faith goes a long way. The more you believe the more you are in God's graces.

bird · 2004-12-16 6:06 pm

Forgive me if you took it in that way, for that is not what I met at all. I'm not sure how I can explain faith for as you said "you once believed" I believe because I experience Him from time to time when I need Him most. Half the time I'm not even really looking to Him for an answer. But a little faith goes a long way. The more you believe the more you are in God's graces.

shrug Like I said, it's like two people talking two different languages -- there's no common ground. I get the same feeling from doing the exact opposite from what you do (that is, looking to god). Human variation, though, it's part of what makes the world go 'round.

Forums | MacLife

#76 2004-12-16 3:08 pm

Re: angels

#77 2004-12-16 3:52 pm

Re: angels

#78 2004-12-16 5:18 pm

Re: angels

#79 2004-12-16 5:26 pm

Re: angels

#80 2004-12-16 6:00 pm

Re: angels

#81 2004-12-16 6:06 pm

Re: angels

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