Forums | MacLife

What happened to the filters?

There never was a grammar filter. 

I don't mind piracy too much, as long as everyone follows these guidelines:

1. Buy Mac games, don't pirate them.  We need to boost the Mac Game industry.

2. Register shareware, don't pirate it.  Shareware authors are the ones that can't afford to be raped.

3. Never, ever, EVER pay for a Microsoft product.  Go on a pirating frenzy.

HaHa, Hahahaaa.  Yeah right.  Let me get this straight - you are saying, "I don't mind if you break the rules, just as longs as you follow these other rules".  How hypocritical.

Did someone actually say that software has no material value?  What the heck did that mean?  Are you saying the software is not material and therefore has no value or that software has no value.  Both are clearly ridiculous.  The only non-ridiculous thing you could have meant is that software is not a material, but that is rather obvious.

No matter how you rationalize it or slice it, pircacy is not only illegal, it is wrong.  Ok, sure, in some cases, perhaps there is little or no damage to the software companies, but that does not matter.  This thread can't be for real.  Most of these arguments that piracy is ok are dillusional.

you are a Guatamalen Stink Bug Styler... haha

HaHa, Hahahaaa.  Yeah right.  Let me get this straight - you are saying, "I don't mind if you break the rules, just as longs as you follow these other rules".  How hypocritical.

I never said that. Don't put words in my mouth, or call me a hypocrite because you don't agree with my opinion.

All I meant was I don't mind piracy all that much(that means I DO mind it, just not very much. I never said I liked or supported it), except when people do some of the things I spoke against.  There's nothing hypocritical in finding some ways of committing a crime more immoral than others.  I would suggest you make an apology.

I'm assuming the rest of the post wasn't meant for me, but I never said anything in the second paragraph, and I more or less stated most of your third paragraph in my post just before this one.

i don't what the fuss is about. piracy is piracy is piracy.

either don't do it, or do it and feel guilty.

dont be proud about it...

Software isn't a piece of metal (though sometimes there is a dongle) so there's no value attached to each copy.

I agree to a point.  And that point is very clear.  Download the software and put it on the shelf.  It is just a bunch of zeros and ones.  Ok, I agree with you up until then.  But as soon as you install it and use it, it has value and you are gaining a tangible benefit from it.  Once a beneficial use has occurred, there is a tremendous value to the software.

Hey - to Dave the Embalmer - secretly, I do not disagree with your opinion.  I agree that there are various levels to criminal activity and that certain types of piracy rank down pretty low on the list, even perhaps next to stealing bubble gum.  Clearly though, it is also possible for piracy to be felonious, say if my company were to start pirating all of our software and saving $100,000 per year because of it.  That ranks up there with the big, bad, naughty thefts.

On the subject of software being something that can be stolen, here are my thoughts:

The software, in itself, cannot be stolen, only copied, reproduced.  But there are two things that can be stolen: Goods and Services. I'm sure someone has heard that at least once.  Software is not a tangible good, but it IS a service.  Its sort of like going to a shoe shiner, having him or her shine your shoes, then run off without paying.  The polish used on your shoes is so small that its cost is negligable, so we can safely say its not a good. What is left that you stole? The service; the labor.  The labor of programmers is now different.

That said, most programmers (in the big shot companies, anyway) get paid via annual salaries like most people, with no royalty bonus or anything, so they don't care one way or the other about pirating. They still get paid.   

Funny, I thought only Windows users were pirates and theifs?

That would be very uninformed of you now wouldnt it?

  Ya see, I think that stealing bubble gum is much worse than stealing software.  That's going into the store, slipping a pack of  bubble gum into your pocket and walking out, hoping the clerk didn't notice.  Not only is that theft, it's below the belt and very bad for one's karma.

Right on, Capt'n Hector.  I totally agree with not disrupting one's Karma.  You have to be true to yourself, because, hey, that is all you got.

Anyone see that Nicholas Cage movie (family man, I think) where his life get's switched as if he had a family, instead of the wall street life he actually choose.  The african-american guy in the movie who made the swtich is kinda like a guy who goes around testing people's trueness to their own self.  At one point in the movie, he purposely gives someone back the wrong change (extra $$ back) just to see if they will say something and return it.  When they don't, he says, "Can you belive that, they sold themselves out over a stinking $9".  I totally love that scene, because it hit's home for me and how I try to live my life.  I guess this piracy thread just struck a chord in me somewhere along those lines.  I love you all man.  I love you Capt'n Hetor.  I love you Dave the Embalmer.   

I cannot believe the way some of you people justify stealing.  Who the hell are you determine what company has already made "enough" money, and you can now steal from them at will?

It's absolutely pathetic... no it's dispicable. 

If you're going to steal software then at least have the common sense to realize that it's stealing.  SoftwareCo. sells a product, and it costs the same for you, your Uncle's home business, and for Ford Motor Company.  If any one of you pirates it, you're a thief.  Just a thief.

All the freakin' Robin Hoods in this thread disappoint me.

I don't see how we can really call it stealing. I look at it this way... if someone gets a copy of a program without paying for it because they otherwise could not afford to buy it (or just would not ever pay such a high price for it), there is no effect on the company that produces that software. They lose no money because that person would not have bought the software anyway. Obviously this is not always the case but it is extremely common. So since stealing implies that someone is financially effected by losing the stolen item, it doesn't fit this scenario. I don't consider software pirates theives based simply on the fact that many pirates have no effect on a company's earnings.

I pirated microsoft office... and don't give a poop if microsoft goes out of business because of it.

same here

In my opinion, stealing involves two parts. Person A losing what they had and person B getting what was once person A's. Piracy only involves half of this and to me, that does make it more justified. Does that make it right? No. It is the semi-theft of what is called intellectual property. BUT I still think that if someone cannot afford something than they can pay the cost of procuring it and the risk of semi-theft. They will be gaining something without paying for it but they will not be taking any thing away from anyone. I see this as not harming anyone. I am a student and until I get a full time job, I will NOT pay $600 for Photoshop. I just do NOT have that kind of money AT ALL. I think it is stupid for people who can afford something not to buy it though. I see nothing wrong with people who pirate an expensive program like Final Cut Pro 3, use it to get a job and make money, and THEN buy the real program. IMO the general rule should be that if you can pay for it, do so. If you cannot but want it, be prepared to face the risks involved but I will not look down on someone who isn't doing full-theft. Piracy can also be a form of boycotting. If you do not feel something is worth the cost but do think it is a well made product of intellectual material, you could pirate it. Obviously the right thing to do is actually pay for it but it is also the right thing to always drive UNDER the speed LIMIT but I don't know anyone who does that. Rebellion by accepted and widespread violation of the law? Rules are the way people always know who to point the finger at. Also, greed is what our economy is based on. People want to gain without much loss. This applies to the top executives and the lowest criminals. They all want more. Human desires are insatiable.

So long,
Larg0

I look at it this way... if someone gets a copy of a program without paying for it because they otherwise could not afford to buy it (or just would not ever pay such a high price for it), there is no effect on the company that produces that software. They lose no money because that person would not have bought the software anyway. Obviously this is not always the case but it is extremely common. So since stealing implies that someone is financially effected by losing the stolen item, it doesn't fit this scenario. I don't consider software pirates theives based simply on the fact that many pirates have no effect on a company's earnings.

That's naiive.  Here's how the business works:  I make software, and in development, advertising, and packaging, etc I spend $100,000.  Say I sell my product for $100.  I need to sell 1,000 copies just to break even, but I project that I will sell 2,000 copies.  I will take the profits to invest in the next version, and I don't know, buy food for my children.  If all you pirates steal me software, I'm out $100,000 for my troubles.  How is that not financially effected?  You say it's because other people have already bought enough licenses to cover my costs.  Well, I ask again, who do you think you are that you have the right to determine when I've sold enough copies and made "enough" money?

And if you weren't going to buy it anyway, then why are you pirating it?  That's stoopid.  If no one is going to buy it anyway, then you'll find the box at CompUSA for $2 in the "old crap that no one wants bin."   Get it from there.  It's like stealing a BMW that is sitting on a lot and justifying it by saying that no one was going to buy it anyway, it's too expensive.