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#1 2005-01-31 4:52 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I'm about to move into my own room at Uni and realized that the QS was going to be a bit loud. (I successfully silenced an AMD64 2800 which I swapped for the 733 G4)

My first job was to rubber mount the large fan on the side. I used the washes used to fix Colourbond roofing in place. These fixed the vibrating noise. However, my dead B&W was still quieter. Upon examining the two fans, the B&W's fan is a lot quieter and moves a larger volume of air! (Thanks to a slightly better blade) So I put that in, and I could hear my Western Digital HD accessing! Success!

Next problem, this newfound quietness is spoilt by the CPU fan kicking up about 10 minutes into operation. Out of shear luck, I went down the local computer store and found a replacement 6cm fan. Just a $15AUD ($8USD) CPU fan. (It had 3 pin plug, but it is the same profile as the 2 pin, so it just slid right on) Now for the interesting bit! This fan pumps through more air thus keeps the G4 from kicking up a notch. When it does kick up, the extra airflow quickly cools down the heatsink and it drops back again.

I didn't even bother with the finger guard on the PSU. It is quiet enough that I can hear the HD accessing and even the 4cm fan in my FW Hot-Butter case is louder than the tower when the CPU fan has spun-up.

up


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#2 2005-01-31 5:34 pm

Orion
Bovi-sapiens
From: America's Dairyland
Registered: 2000-09-12
Posts: 2959

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

My QS 933 has always been quiet.  In fact, I think that my B&W G3 was louder than this thing.  I can hear the HD access, and I must say that it is a pretty quite hard drive compared to what I have had in the past.  My PC's on the other hand are louder than all my mac's put together.  I can have a PC started up across the room from my Mac, and when I do I can no longer hear my QS fans or hard drive.  Shut it down, and all I hear is a quite hum from my QS.  Maybe I just got lucky?  shrug


Farming is easy when your plow is a pencil and you are a thousand miles from the cornfield.  -Dwight D. Eisenhower

Don't curse the farmer with your mouth full.

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#3 2005-01-31 6:06 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I would have to say luck, then again a 933 was the top-of-the-line so I guess they couldn't use the normal fans from the other towers. Still, the mod is a success, not quite as quiet as what I got the PC to but still good.

Maybe my next mod will be to get a Zalman PSU (one of the ones with the 12" fan) and mod it to work. The would sit right onto of the CPU and act as a giant CPU fan as well as the exhaust for the PSU.

I soo want to try that now big_smile


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#4 2005-02-04 8:05 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

It has been a week since I performed the mod. What can I say, purfect!

I have been running backlight 2 with the Matrix GL saver constantly for a week now. This has kept the CPU activity well above 20% at all times. Even with this constant CPU load, the CPU fan hasn't kicked up to the faster speed. The only time I have had it kick up was during a few DVD re-codes. (I'm backing up my Anime stash B4 I go to Uni, there is no way I'm taking $200 worth of Anime DVDs)

I am still seeking quieter 12cm, 6cm and maybe even a new PSU. If anyone knows any good brands to try/lookout for I'll give them a whirl. I'm trying to make my QS silent.
evil


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#5 2005-02-05 8:31 am

icebook1
That college kid
From: Virginia
Registered: 2001-05-27
Posts: 1384

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I need to look into doing something like that. My QS is very loud. It's not the HDs though -- definately the fans. So you say I can replace one of the fans in my QS with one from a Blue & White? I'll try that.

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#6 2005-02-05 10:09 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Well originally I used a B&W side fan, that worked quite well. Today I went to the computer fair and picked up two fans that use ceramic bearings. One 120mm and one 60mm half height. The 120mm needed to have the plug from one of the Apple fans soldered on, but that went smoothly. The 60mm half size was a mistake, it appears to not put through enough air. If I start getting kernel panics I'll return it and get the full size one.

Still, I'm keeping the CPU activity above 50% and there hasn't been any glitches but the heatsink isn't as cool. hmm It might need that full size 60mm for the CPU. The sound is amazing, there is almost none! Very low background noise, nice!


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#7 2005-02-05 11:17 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I just had to swap out the new half size CPU fan for the original replacement. Back came the noise after swapping it out. (Still way better than before the mods) It was getting too hot for my liking and I'm assuming that the low noise level was with the CPU fan kicked up to the 2nd level.
cry

Still, it looks like ceramic bearing fans are the way to go. The 120mm and the 60mm are the important ones, I wouldn't bother with the PSU.


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#8 2005-02-06 3:52 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

How much space do you have available for each?


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#9 2005-02-06 4:21 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Huh? If your referring to the CPU fan, the normal size is a full size fan, but I grabbed the half size. I'll just have to get the full size one next time the computer fair is on. Still it was very quiet, what can I compare it too. About as loud as a laser printer?


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#10 2005-02-06 4:49 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

The more space available, the more you can do... if space is available, mounting a larger fan on a suitable adapter would allow some combination of greater airflow/less noise- in your case, a low rpm, low noise 92x25mm fan on a 92->60mm adapter would allow the use of a very low speed, quiet fan that probably still moves more air than the original 60mm & avoids the 'dead zone' of near-nil airflow under the hub (usually also the hottest spot on the heatsink), giving near-silent operation without need to vary the speed. An 80->60 arrangement would also be an improvement.

I'm not familiar with the QS case, so I'm not versed in the exact requirements. This is the kind of adapter I mean, so you can probably tell at a glance if this approach is viable.

As a rule, larger fans are quieter for any given level of airflow. This includes depth as well as diameter, so I'm not surprised a 'half-size' (half-height?) fan is less desirable than the original.

Vibration-deadening gaskets are also available, like

http://www.svc.com/vafanvidakit1.html

Last edited by Bat (2005-02-06 4:53 am)


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#11 2005-02-06 6:24 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Unfortunately, there is little room for modification as far as adding extra fans. Replacing the stock fans seems the only viable alternative with maybe the replacement of the PSU's fan. Due to the clearances involved, there is little room for extra fans. Even a PCI fan removes a valuable PCI slot! A clever mod would be to add a fan to the top of the heat-sink by grinding a hole, no idea how effective that would be.

The QS adjusts the fan speed as the temperature increases. Unfortunately, the half size fan just couldn't keep it cool enough. I believe that the full size Ceramic baring fan will be just as effective as the sock fan, but be a lot quieter. Oh well, 2 weeks until the next fair at any rate. Now to dream up some more hacks!
sad


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#12 2005-02-06 9:36 pm

ironhawk
Shai Dorsai!
From: San Francisco
Registered: 2001-10-16
Posts: 3080

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

reece_james wrote:

...A clever mod would be to add a fan to the top of the heat-sink by grinding a hole, no idea how effective that would be...

I did this in my Mystic. I'm not sure how clever I'd consider it, tho.

It just required a Dremel, to cut away enough of the aluminum heatsink to squeeze the fan on ( or rather in, as I cut a square hole ).
I then placed the fan into the heatsink, to pull heat away more quickly from the overclocked processor.

I would also like to find more silent fans, to replace the stock fans.
There are much louder fans than what come with the Mystic, but there are also much more silent ones. I've actually entertained moving everything into a nicely designed aluminum ATX, with new fans and all ( and, ahhhhh, room for expansion ).


All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible "IMHO". It's not in the html code, either.
-titok16

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#13 2005-02-07 12:00 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I'm not sure if it is possible in the QS, but I guess it would be worth a shot.

These Ceramic fans are really, really quiet! The half one I've listed up on eBay Australia. The 12cm one is silent and the 6cm was close to it, but didn't push enough air. (Thats why I'm eBaying it)

Last edited by reece_james (2005-02-07 12:01 am)


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#14 2005-02-07 1:53 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I wasn't suggesting adding fans, I was suggesting replacing the 6cm CPU fan with the larger fan/adapter combo if there's room. Normally that should just bolt or screw on, but as I say I don't have experience with that model, or something like a set of photos to help.

If that would work, you'd have all the cooling you need and near-silent operation- e.g., the most powerful 6cm fan I know is the 60x38 Delta EHE, rated 50.1cfm at 8000 rpm. Sounds like a dental drill... you should be able to approach that, even funneled thru an adapter, with a 92mm at under 2500 rpm, as low as 21 dbA.

If you can point me to a set of good photos, it'd help.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#15 2005-02-07 1:56 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Sidewinder Computers has something they call The Listening Room. Hasn't been updated for some time, but it has recordings of many of the older fans they sell, even spectra:

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/tecar.html


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#16 2005-02-07 5:58 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Unfortunately the clearances only allow for a 6cm fan. (It fits between the PSU and the motherboard.) Remember that fan I bought to replace he original fan? It shat a bearing about 5 minutes ago! Jeez. Oh well I'm back to the original Apple 'turbine' 6cm. I really need to got my hands on that ceramic 6cm now!


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#17 2005-02-07 6:41 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Ouch... yeah, I was afraid of something like that. I can think of other approaches, probably equally unworkable. Good luck, and assuming that's a 60x25mm fan, I'll keep an eye out for quiet substitutes.

I don't suppose you'd know the airflow rating on the stock unit?


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#18 2005-02-07 6:51 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Yeah a bit of a bummer. This fan breaking didn't help either. (I'll take it back and ask for a refund)

Yes it is a 60x60x25mm fan. The half size ceramic one is 60x60x12.5 and it just doesn't have enough 'force' to push the air through the heatsink. (The CPU fan is mounted 90


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#19 2005-02-07 7:42 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

You may just be in luck... take a look at

http://www.sunonusa.com/ms.htm

...findable at

http://www.directron.com/magnetic.html

This the highest output fan in that line and size. 23.5cfm may be enough.

These are rarely seen OEM in computer equipment. The only place I can recall seeing them used is on these high-end chipset coolers, in 40mm size:

http://www.swiftnets.com/products/mcx159.asp


Edit for number detail.

Last edited by Bat (2005-02-07 7:45 am)


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#20 2005-02-07 10:13 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

That Sunon fan is the noisy blighter that Apple uses! That is the little bugger thats causing the problem!
http://us.st7.yimg.com/store1.yimg.com/I/directron_1832_40083957.jpg


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#21 2005-02-07 10:48 pm

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I also discovered why the half height fan didn't work too well, I wired it up wrong! It was operating at half speed, I just rewired it and it now supplies enough cooling. It makes slightly less noise than the stock but it appears to push through a bit more air. Time will tell I guess.

Edit: Just in running for a little while seems to have worn it in a bit.


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#22 2005-02-08 1:06 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

reece_james wrote:

That Sunon fan is the noisy blighter that Apple uses! That is the little bugger thats causing the problem!

Interesting... you're sure that's the exact unit, product number matches? Sunon makes a lot of fans, even in the 60x25mm size.

I know some extremely quiet units, but they usually only move about 12cfm.

Too bad there's apparently no room for an elbow duct or hose (it's years since I've seen interior photos). Of course there are other ways of cooling, but things like watercooling are probably beyond your means.


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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#23 2005-02-08 1:14 am

fizzwinkus
purebred fizzlewink
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2000-08-10
Posts: 4016
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

i thought quicksilver cpu fans had a duct from the back of the comp straight towards the heatsink and blew over it from the side? (blowing towards the front of the case, no covering over the heatsink to keep airflow moving over the entire heatsink?

i've got to dig up pictures.


Warmest regards.

Sincerely,
Kevin

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#24 2005-02-08 2:21 am

reece_james
TheLAD
From: Wollongong, Australia.
Registered: 2001-12-01
Posts: 3790
Website

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

Yep thats right. It bows air straight across the heatsink onto the back of the optical drive. I've given it a good test today, the CPU activity has been sat on 100% in 40


Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.

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#25 2005-02-08 3:59 am

Bat
Flawless Cowboy
Royal Wombat
From: Björk, Björk
Registered: 2001-05-14
Posts: 28541

Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.

I remember some of this from when the model came out, but not enough, and whatever photos I have would take too much digging. Sounds like it's under control at least tho, so not critical any more.

The higher-rated CPUs may have had better, more expensive heatsinks whose differences weren't necessarily obvious.

They're pricey, but there are fanless PSUs- totally silent, and of course Zalman has their TNN 500A noiseless, heatpipe-cooled case $ystem... sometime soon I should be firing up an Athlon64 with a CoolMax CR-550B PSU (14cm fan). I'll pass along how it sounds (or, hopefully, doesn't).

The GF2MX's cooler is just a cheap slab of aluminum- keeps costs down on budget cards. Video chips often run amazingly hot, and even other chips on higher-powered videocards- I once burned a finger on (I think) a rectifier on my 9700 Pro a couple of years ago.

Oh, and good words for Panasonic's Panaflo 120x38mm fans. Can't go wrong there.

Last edited by Bat (2005-02-08 4:14 am)


If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw

"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."

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