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#26 2005-02-08 4:14 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Yeha I had an AMD64 2800, it really was only good for games so i sold it and bought this G4. 
I did the same kind of cooling trick, it worked quite well.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#27 2005-02-08 6:18 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
I assume you mean the total system, as with HyperTransport and an on-die memory controller, there isn't much the Athlon 64 per se doesn't do well, in some respects (like the latter) outpointing the PPC 970FX, let alone any G4. A64s meet Alien's standard of WOO-HOO!! fast, so I assume the QS's OS/software plus hardware package is more to your liking.
There actually is quite a bit you can do on the Dark Side with the requisite expertise and that kind of affordable power, but you're right- despite a year+ of post-release optimizing unmatched on the other side, even the DP2.5 w/ ATi X800 XT can't approach my Halo Timedemo scores, even on the current 2.2GHz Athlon XP. The A64 will take that performance Beyond.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#28 2005-02-08 7:05 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Yeah I know, I saw the potential of the AMD64, the problem was the software. Basically Windows sucked. It would stop responding for no reason, crap out in Photoshop and only work when playing games.
When I was hosting BF1942 games, it was smooth even with full AI and 8 players
Really multimedia and functionality is important, not gaming speed. 
However, sound is also a consideration. I'm still pondering how to quieten the QS further.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#29 2005-02-08 8:02 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
It's academic now, but you should've come to WFA and gotten things straightened out. I don't quarrel with platform choices, but that kind of thing needn't happen. I've a second Win project going; it's all multimedia- TV, TIVO, DVD (etc) -type stuff. I've never had those sorts of behaviors in those apps.
Sound I can help with.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#30 2005-02-08 11:39 pm
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Yeah it wasn't so much the hardware, the hardware was great! The problem came when I wanted to do multimedia. Audio sync problems, burning dud DVDs, codec problems, not to mention the loss of many hours of work from Photoshop. (It didn't understand that every time I click the save button, it was supposed to save. So when it crashed, I find it has either corrupted or hasn't written my last 6 saves.)
So yeah gave up and got the G4. I'm sticking to what I know. (Linux looked good but I didn't want to jump in the deep-end)
Back on topic, it turns out that I did install the 12cm fan incorrectly. It acts as an exhaust fan that creates a low pressure in the case and helps draw air past the heat-sink. Ingenious when you know how it works. With that in mind, I slowed down the 12cm fan again and turned it over so it now blows the air out the vents at the bottom and at the rear. This didn't do much to the noise, but it cooled the machine right off! Now after an hour of 100% CPU loading the heat-sink is still cool to touch. If it passes this 40minute DVD rip, I'll try the 6cm CPU fan on the lower setting. (This should now work better since it only has to help the airflow, not fight against it)
Baby steps 3 days out from my move into Uni, I have to have this mod stable by then.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#31 2005-02-09 5:32 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Ok, I've dropped the CPU fan speed so that the tower is basically inaudible. At the moment, I'm doing a MPEG2 encode, using an GL screen saver as my desktop, playing an iTunes playlist, using activity monitor, mail and using MSN. The heatsink is quite hot, not untouchable, but hot none the less. I've been searching applications to see if I can find a temperature monitor, but they only sense the WD HD.
I haven't seen any kernel panics or glitches like if you overclock a CPU or have corruption problems. ie a B&W G3
Hot, but quiet. I think the ultimate mod would be to add an adjustable speed to the CPU fan. It just can't keep it as cool as I would like when on the low setting. Then again, I rarely do large slabs of 100% CPU usage.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#32 2005-02-09 7:09 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
I've never seen a CPU heatsink that I would characterize that way operating in a safe temp zone... 'warm' maybe, but never 'quite hot.' That sounds like 60
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#33 2005-02-09 8:46 pm
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Well it is figuratively speaking, it is hot, but nowhere near as hot as the Geforce 2MX (That burnt my finger when I touched it) and not quite as hot as the Pismo's which reports over 100
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#34 2005-02-22 5:04 am
- The Cynic
- Member

- Registered: 2004-01-25
- Posts: 1934
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Bat wrote:
For a software app to work, there should be a thermal sensor somewhere it can read from.
nope, there is no thermal sensor (at least not to my knowledge)
from what i have observed, the stock fan is where the temperature sensor resides.
i also have a DP QS, and it's sound/cpu temp have been rather irritating. Heatsink usually idles at nearly untouchable, and the fan (even on no load, thus lowest temp) is noticably loud over games/music/movie/aural experience
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#35 2005-02-22 5:19 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
That would make sense, and explain why it spins up...
Well I actually did a bad thing, when I swapped out the fan about a week ago, I didn't connect it up. It has run constantly for over 6 days without the CPU fan! That includes some heavy anime sessions, UT2004, Postal 2 and at least one DVD remaster.
I opened it up to show a mate the guts and I noticed that the fan wasn't running....
I'm guessing its the DP thats why it runs hot, but even without my CPU fan it was touchable. Even at the base. I guess Apple built em tough!
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#36 2005-02-22 5:50 am
- The Cynic
- Member

- Registered: 2004-01-25
- Posts: 1934
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
-takes a sip of water-
*spits it out*
no fan... smoooth.
i have heard of worse things, though..
I have a dualie 1ghz monster, but it's hard drive controller died, and for the last 4 months, i have been too cheap to get the $80 sonnet PCI controller.
*counts money currently saved up for whatever fancy computer part i happen to stumble across*
$60. nuts.
but if i were to revive my beloved mac, i would surely want it to not be moaning like frankenstein, much like it did in it's more lively and functional time
EDIT: much worse things....
"...while putting in the motherboard I forgot to put in the metal spacers. Booted up first time and nothing came up to the screen. Turned off fine. Then tried to boot again after checking connections. This time nothing, and there was a glow coming from within the case, getting brighter and brighter. Look inside, and viola. A little random chip on the motherboard is glowing bright orange... Oops."
Last edited by The Cynic (2005-02-22 5:54 am)
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#37 2005-02-23 2:38 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Ouch.
***
Yes, fans with thermal sensors are available; not even that expensive. However, they're usually meant as case fans; but nothing need stop you from using one on a CPU, as long as the temp envelope and orientation are correct. Some dedicated PC hardware like this is available with separate sensors.
Function 2:
Temp.detector 2000 rpm at 20 єC~
5500 rpm at 55 єC
For the last year, one of these has been cooling MA3, the Clan MacAddict server. I co-designed it, and this HSF was my monetary contribution. The temp sensor is placed on the side of the CPU die... of course, nothing this size would fit this project.
Some Athlons have been rated for as high as 95C, but I'd hate for one to spend substantial time anywhere near that hot. The watercooled 2.5GHz DP apparently runs nearly that hot sometimes, but has an elaborate heat-sensing/ cooling arrangement that spins up the fans under load. Even so, there've been reports of thermal runaways; but at least Apple stands behind their warranty. Apparently The Steve really wanted to avoid a repeat of the 'year at 500 MHz' debacle, and this was one way to get half the jump to 3GHz he mentioned at the G5's intro.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#38 2005-02-23 5:45 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Remember tah the G3 in the Pismo exceeds 100
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#39 2005-03-08 1:19 pm
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Could one of you guys explain the fact that my Dual Ghz Quicksilver 2002's CPU fan is suddenly on all the time, and sometimes full blast at random?
Nothing like hardware or software changed on this machine before this happened.
Is it just because it's winter and the room temerature is higher than normal?
I now closed the hole in the rubber shroud but it's noise is still much louder than before. I cannot live like this!
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#40 2005-03-09 4:11 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Check that the side fan is operational and that there is no dust clogging the vents. Basically if the temp rises in the case, the fan jumps up a speed setting. My 733 ran without the CPU fan for almost a week without a glitch so I guess that the temp isn't that critical. (At least in the 733.) Also note that I upgraded the side fan, it pulls almost twice the ammount of air so that might contribute to why it didn't meltdown.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#41 2005-03-09 4:11 pm
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
The side fan is working and dust is something I hate so it's nowhere near my machine.
I actually dampened the sidefan's cover with 2 layers of airyplastic (that the whitestuff in which my DVDplayer came) and closed the small holes and cracks of that cover the side fan. It's sound is somewhat dampened now. But after that the whining from somewhere started.
I'm gonna find some quiet replacements over here in Holland for it. Cause I'm getting crazy of this sound.
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#42 2005-03-09 6:57 pm
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
What's happened is that you have restricted the airflow out of the case. Because of this, the ambient temperature in the case has increased and the CPU fan speeds up and makes the ghastly howling noise.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#43 2005-03-10 5:38 am
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Don't get me wrong! If this is what you mean; I didn't of course close the round holes on the side of the case behind the plastic outercover. So there is nothing major obstructed. All I did was close the cracks and holes on the sides of the cover of the sidefan. So where it connectcs top the outer case. Because I noticed strange dust trails and thought that any whisteling holes should be closed off.
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#44 2005-03-10 8:50 am
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
O, that makes much more sense. 
Still, maybe some part of that mod is causing problems. The easiest way to test if it is the CPU fan is to disconnect the plug and turn it on. if it doesn't howl, then quickly turn it off again and plug in the fan. At least then you know that it is the CPU fan. If it is a new noise, I'm guessing the earlier mod has caused an exhaust problem. (I had mine blowing air in instead of out causing the CPU fan to be on the highest setting all the time.)
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#45 2005-03-17 5:01 am
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Now what??? My PSU fan is the one freaking out here.
When I start up the fan sounds like it has trouble to start up. It makes short bursts which sound like moans really. After some minutes it switches on but not on a continues level. It's working fast in louder, longer bursts, and then slower again. The air blowing out is not warmer than usual.
As I said before nothing hardware or OS wise changed in my Quicksilver 2002 DP 1Ghz.
Could the temperature sensor be failing?
Who knows what the hell is happening here?
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#46 2005-03-18 4:09 am
- Bat
- Flawless Cowboy
- Royal Wombat

- From: Björk, Björk
- Registered: 2001-05-14
- Posts: 28541
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Nothing, certainly including fans, has an infinite service life. Sounds like the PSU fan is close to failure, and the bearing[s] need to heat up before the fan will even turn.
Replace the fan, or PSU, yesterday. The consequences of PSU failure are not pretty.
If all economists were laid end to end, they would not reach a conclusion - George Bernard Shaw
"Fire up a colortini, sit back, relax, and watch the pictures, now, as they fly through the air."
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#47 2005-03-18 7:09 pm
- The Cynic
- Member

- Registered: 2004-01-25
- Posts: 1934
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
i've opened up my PSU before, and it's pretty damn easy to replace the fan if need be.
(this is assuming your warrantee is out, which should be true)
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#48 2005-03-18 9:57 pm
- reece_james
- TheLAD

- From: Wollongong, Australia.
- Registered: 2001-12-01
- Posts: 3790
- Website
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
Yeah, just find a similar fan and swap it over. You might like to remove the PSU's finger grill while you're at it. That does help airflow and quieten the tower a bit.
Reece [/IMHO]
"All posts on the internet are postfixed by an invisible 'IMHO'", tito
Intel iMac CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 17" + 20", 1160GB HD, 10.5.2.
MacBook CD 1.83Ghz, 2GB RAM, 60GB HD, 10.5.2.
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#49 2005-03-19 7:38 am
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
I'll get to that then.
Does somebody know the specs of the PSU fan?
Size, Watt draw, Voltage, connectors?
Or a good site to find this info. I used to have a great mod story with specs of all the fans bookmarked but I can't find it anymore.
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#50 2005-03-22 4:03 am
Re: Quieting the QS. Non invasive mods.
For now I quickly put in a cheapo PSU fan. Zalman ZM-F1. Which is now all the time running at 3000 RPM and 34.2 dBA.
Isn't that strange by the way? The temperature control which is in the PSU should regulate it to a lower speed at least right after starting up or?
It draws 0,25 A, which is 0,01 more than the Magic fan which was inside. It moves a little more air than the original one. But at least it's working and keeping my PSU cool enough judging by the air-against-hand-test.
While I was around I cut away the fan guard and thinned out the grill on the inside side of the PSU to get more air drawn in.
I'll keep searching for silent fans that still move a lot of air. But in Europe the choices are slim.
Last edited by Sookie (2005-03-22 8:37 am)
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