Forums | MacLife

No. It says "All men are created equal". It makes no qualifiers. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. If you want to disagree with that statement, fine, that's another debate, but the idea that some men are inherently better than others has no place in the values upon which this country was founded, and that includes all men.

*except if you're a HOMOSEXUAL, then you're just sheet out of luck pal. Sorry, I know this was way back on page 4 but I just couldn't let it slide by unchallenged.

Unthankfully, more people don't live by words of that kind. There would be more of that "utopian" world people dream about... but because people can't get past their own ideals that won't happen in my life time.

I am forced to point out that this applies quite accurately to you. Your sig is in complete contrast to your own views. You might want to change it in order to not look quite as hypocritical, but that's merely a suggestion. I suppose making it obvious has it's upside.

I would tend to agree, but I won't because of one reason... only a few things in this world get me rialed up...

Politics, and Forien goverments that diss us without any reason to...except their own stupidity.

Sorry, but your train of thought has derailled again and hundreds are injured or dead. You're not making sense. What has your answer got to do with my post or, for that matter, what I quoted from you?

Your thought process is illogical.

by cyberpawz:

your point?

You ain't the sage.

No. It says "All men are created equal". It makes no qualifiers. Zero. Zilch. Zippo. If you want to disagree with that statement, fine, that's another debate, but the idea that some men are inherently better than others has no place in the values upon which this country was founded, and that includes all men.

*except if you're a HOMOSEXUAL, then you're just sheet out of luck pal. Sorry, I know this was way back on page 4 but I just couldn't let it slide by unchallenged.

Huh?

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by
   madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn
   looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly
   connection to the starry dynamo in the machin-
   ery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat
   up smoking in the supernatural darkness of
cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities
   contemplating jazz,
who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and
   saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tene-
   ment roofs illuminated,
who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes
   hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy
   among the scholars of war,
who were expelled from the academies for crazy &
   publishing obscene odes on the windows of the
   skull,
who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear, burn-
   ing their money in wastebaskets and listening
   to the Terror through the wall

This country was not created under the idea that 'all men are created equal,' either.

The statement 'we the people of the United States' that opens the preamble to the Constitution did not apply to any black, Native American, or female citizens at the time that document was ratified. 

Those second-class citizens did not receive full rights under the law until several years later.

True, true. But as those groups were not specifically excluded, the gradual (overall) enlightenment of people in this country caused them to awaken to the contradiction here, and include those who should have been included in the first place.

My point was that, since non-Americans are also not specifically excluded, maybe we should consider that they can be seen as equal too? (I personally believe that nationality is stupid way of determining one's worth as a person, but unfortunately, a lot of people need to be shown a law or historic document in order to be convinced of something; that's the only reason I bring this up.)

Or perhaps we should just mind our own business and let other nationalities (cultures) live life the way they want to and not impose American value's.

That would be all fair and well, as long as they do the same.

Cyberpawz

Or perhaps we should just mind our own business and let other nationalities (cultures) live life the way they want to and not impose American value's.

That would be all fair and well, as long as they do the same.

Cyberpawz

Who is imposing their values on you?

:?:

Not on me, but in general... if Iraq decides to impose itself on Saudi Arabia, or visa versa, or any other country, that idealism is not possible.

Cyberpawz

Not on me, but in general... if Iraq decides to impose itself on Saudi Arabia, or visa versa, or any other country, that idealism is not possible.

Cyberpawz

Is Iraq doing that?

They are imposing it on their own people, in which is causing not just harm but death...

Cyberpawz

Not on me, but in general... if Iraq decides to impose itself on Saudi Arabia, or visa versa, or any other country, that idealism is not possible.

Cyberpawz

Is Iraq doing that?

They are imposing it on their own people, in which is causing not just harm but death...

Cyberpawz

You've contradicted yourself.  We were talking about one culture imposing their beliefs on another.  To an extent, all government's exert some sort of control over its people.  To say that Iraq is imposing its culture on its own people makes no sense.

Not when only one religion, or belief is allowed, any other is almost guaranteed as treason.

Cyberpawz

Not when only one religion, or belief is allowed, any other is almost guaranteed as treason.

Neither Iraq nor Saddam is overly concerned with religion.  Their government is mostly secular.

Again, thinking that the US needs to liberate people from a government that forces them to follow a certain religion is tantamount to wanting to inflict your culture on theirs...those people believe that religion, it represents a good deal of their life.

We're not so religious here.  I think it's rather ridiculous, myself..but I don't think it is our place to 'change' it, especially when that is the last thing those people actually want.

I was giving an example, it's not proven one way or another, you are making it sound as fact...I gave a hypotetical possibility, and that was it...no more, no less.

That is why I did not just leave it at Iraq, unlike you did.

Cyberpawz