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ShnickyShnack wrote:

but it still casts a mighty long shadow.

And the domination mindset lurks, quietly, in that shadow.  It waits...and it will return.

Sad, but true.  It is the darkness of the human heart, and we all suffer for it, past, present and, doubtless, in the future.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

The darkness is there, but it needs the proper conditions to take over. The question is whether those conditions will return. I personally think it's extremely unlikely.

I hope that you're correct, but I am not optimistic.

It's not impossible to conceive another 'imperial' force in the world. Prior to the 'dawn' of Rome the Greeks would have never thought that a small village nearby would one day rule the known world. Likewise, I'm sure the Romans collectively never thought the sun would set on them. We are no different. France, although they are the but of a great many jokes, have one of the bloodiest and most brutal histories and have heritage of one of the worlds greatest conquerors. The same rules can apply to any nation. It is naive to think that we (America) will eternally remain the sole great superpower of the world. In honesty, what nation actually thinks of themselves as inferior? We are a young nation, technology has moved us, as well as the rest of the world, along at a highly accelerated pace. I found a quote yesterday that struck me as very poignant;
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jax wrote:

It reminds me of when I used to play Civilization II.

Good post.

However, I am not so sure that a Civ analysis of geopolitical events is the best model to follow.  When I played that game back in the day, I would ALWAYS get nukes and spend the rest game blasting the heck out of everyone else...literally back to the stone age.

The best thing was to build up a good conventional army, place its units at the "border" or your opponent.  Nuke 'em good to tick them off.  Then let their remaining troops suicidally attack your ready forces.  At that point, you could easily march in, take over their remaining cities with minimal fuss, and speed up the advance of your own culture via your former opponent's resources.

Of course, no one in today's ever-so-rational world would EVER think of doing such a thing in reality...

...right?

Proost wrote:

I don't think Germany alone will be of any danger. If there is danger it's the whole EU which could get allot of power when the US economy is going downhill as it does now. And when the EU is no longer dependant of the US economy and in combination with maybe an EU army things could change. The EU is not for a single country but it does get allot of power from all those countries so it gets impersonal which could lead to not so wise world decisions. But still I still think when things goes bad it's the western world vs the eastern world and not the EU alone.

The US became strong because Europe was in war and they take profit from it, so when the US gets weak others will take profit.

Perhaps 1 important which doesn't seems that important (Holland for example) country will leave the EU and the whole EU will not longer be the EU like it was before. Just remove a little stone from the house/foundation and the whole house is trembling and falling which could lead to an unstable region and the world.

But hey we are a little off topic!! how did we came here...  ?

Good point. From what I've heard the EU is largely responsible for the end of all of the European conflicts (i.e. Brittain and France's constant fighting and plotting). Some detractors claim they could never be a threat because they have put military funding on the back burner. However, in the long term they are growing financially stronger. It is money that funds wars, all you need to rally the people is a cause (any cause will do) and a charismatic speaker.  America is in my opinion making a big mistake by ignoring this rise of power in the EU. As you said, we are facing economic decline, while Europe is poised for another financial 'golden age'.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Invading and slaughtering and dying just because some leader says so? Hard to picture. That total conformity, total surrender of individual will, that once was so prevalent has pretty much gone the way of the dodo.

Not to mention the horrors of the 20th Century still exist within living memory. That stuff might not get talked about in daily life all that much, but it still casts a mighty long shadow.

Now that, is so much bullsh t.

Last edited by StaticAge (2005-03-04 5:42 pm)

ShnickyShnack wrote:

StaticAge wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Invading and slaughtering and dying just because some leader says so? Hard to picture. That total conformity, total surrender of individual will, that once was so prevalent has pretty much gone the way of the dodo.

Not to mention the horrors of the 20th Century still exist within living memory. That stuff might not get talked about in daily life all that much, but it still casts a mighty long shadow.

Now that, is so much bullsh t.

"Hello and welcome to the thread."

Bible prophecy and divinity etc aside: do you really believe "society" has progressed that far? What army doesnt do what their commander in chief tells them to and bomb who he says to bomb? What soldier anywhere truly acts as an individual and exerts his own will and wishes in a battle, or do you believe soldiers actually have personal desire to kill strangers on their own? The horrors of the 20th century never went away, and they are the same horrors from the 19th century, the 18th, 14th, 400 BC and so on. I totally get it if someone's reason prevents them from believing in divine salvation, but buying into these imaginary ideals of the enlightenment, that world peace can and will take place because of current "progress" seems more farfetched to me than the Tooth Fairy or the Easter Bunny.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Are you replying to anything that's actually in the thread, or are you just releasing a volcano of cynicism?

Wait, was the post I responded to not related to this thread? You seem to have argued in the course of the discussion that imperialist domination or people blindly following and killing in the name of was a thing of the past. I disagreed. Then you act like I am disagreeing to some imaginary post.

Last edited by StaticAge (2005-03-04 8:45 pm)

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Hark at the Germans getting all hoity-toity. The Germans!

thats the one that really got my attention early on when bush was trying to bang the wardrum...

i am not sure what we are talking about at this point, but i'll be damned if i let that stop me.

i'm with the ss... i mean shnicky, on this one.  also, the unofficial and official doctrines of mutual reciprocity and the sheer number of military players make the world look much like the RISK board with about 20 players - with the armies set and before the dice are first roled.

i always liked to attack urkusk, because the name intrigued me.

Last edited by more or less (2005-03-05 12:33 am)

i'll be damned if i let the germans take the "high ground" on me.

my last name just might be german.  HINT.

touch my nitzschean monkeyshines!

fun fact:  largest ethnicity/nationality is america is....  GERMAN!!!

telling, that.  me thinks/

And now ... back to the thread.

Roman Catholics in America did not so much go against the Pope, who said this war did not fit the definition of a "just war," as they went for a hypocrite who claims to be anti-abortion (but only since that position served to get him votes).

The Roman Catholics in America are not "for" this war. They are against terrorism. Many of them were tricked into thinking that voting for a pro-choice candidate was a sin. They allowed themselves to believe Bush was telling the truth about the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and that the war, therefore, was justified. Now we're stuck.

The institutional Roman Catholic Church and the pope should not get any blame for this war. The blame rests, ex post facto, squarely on the shoulders of the people who elected Bush in 2004.

The Roman Catholic Church is definitely pro-life, not pro-war. Roman Catholics must pray for all the people involved in the war, our troops, Iraqi people, insurgents, supporters, and terrorists. The modern Roman Catholic Church may not be palatable always, but it is consistently pro-life.

Last edited by debbiedowner (2005-03-05 1:36 pm)