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#1 2003-01-25 2:36 am
- Cynic
- I've got my propaganda

- From: A cold city by a big lake
- Registered: 2001-10-19
- Posts: 2622
Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Ok, thus far I've really enjoyed using Safari. It's faster than any OSX browser I've used so far. But the one thing I miss about OmniWeb (my previous preferred browser) is the ability to block almost all advertisements with very little tweaking. So I pose two questions:
1. Is ad blocking in a browser a good thing or a bad thing?
We all know nothing is free. So if browsers start getting good at blocking ads, what will that do to the internet? Will there be fewer free sites? Or will advertisers just get more devious about how they advertise on the net?
2. Will Apple ever include OmniWeb-like ad blocking in Safari?
Safari already stops pop-ups, and that's great. But why stop there? Do you think Apple will ever implement similar ad blocking techniqes to OmniWeb? (i.e. the ability to block content from any web address, or even partial address) Or do you think Apple would take too much flak from advertisers if they did this? I mean, I've seen Apple ads on sites before...
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#2 2003-01-25 3:13 am
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
oops, I voted YES, but meant NO.
This is why no: Website layouts will be messed up (if I understand what you are saying correctly, if not then back to my YES). If those adds suddenly disappear, then all the webdesignder did to layout around it will be ruined.
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#3 2003-01-25 4:10 am
- Freezer mac
- iPod scroll wheel

- From: next to a big cold lake.
- Registered: 2001-01-06
- Posts: 7370
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
what happens when an ad is blocked it that the spot where the ad was shows up as a blank spot, the page layout is preserved.
If you need a software based firewall, i strongly reccommend netbarrier, it works really well, and it has ad/site/data blocking built in. i use it to block ads, some get through because they are named funny or come from an unusual site, but otherwise i dont see them... no matter which browser i use.
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#4 2003-01-25 5:01 am
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I think blocking pop-up ads is a very good thing. Especially those evil ones that look like alert boxes, and have you clicking on the "OK" part of the window, which then takes you to another site with more pop-up windows. These are invariably hideous Windows dialogue boxes, and thus easy to spot on a Mac, but my wife was fooled, as have several friends been on their Wintel boxes.
If a site needs to have advertising there is no reason why a subtle ad on the page itself shouldn't suffice. Pop-up ads are like junk mail in magazines, weighing everything down and ultimately being completely counter-productive, as people learn to just throw them away on instinct thus defeating the object of an advert.
BHR
(edited for clarity)
He isnt talking about popups, he is talking about the "subtle ad on the page itself".
I say let them stay, they dont bother me and there is no such thing as a free lunch.
to run OS X, you gotta mount your computer on it.
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#5 2003-01-25 5:45 am
- titus02906
- Buried alive in the Japanese Knotweed.

- From: Monster Island
- Registered: 2002-01-24
- Posts: 1089
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
The question is badly put together. I had to answer "Yes" because it's true in the sense the questioner meant. In reality, the internet does not need to "support itself". It would be there whether we like it or not - at least until a bad sun spot or a huge magnetic pulse comes along. But, if we want many sites to remain largely free, then yes, ads are an evil necessity - but no, pop-up ads are an insideous cancerous growth on the buttocks of society.
Ask a better question, please.
"This is no bar room brawl. These are the bad ol' days. The all or nothing days.They're back!"
Marv, SIN CITY
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#6 2003-01-25 1:53 pm
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I can live without ad/image blocking, but I would really like an option to disable animated gifs in Safari (just show the first or last frame). I think that's a reasonable compromise between cutting out all advertisments and being inundated with a bunch of distracting animations.
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#7 2003-01-25 2:18 pm
- Chris FOM
- The Deobfuscator
- Royal Wombat
- From: Houston, TX
- Registered: 2000-12-05
- Posts: 2475
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I've never blocked image adds, because many adds are based on load counts, not click counts, so not loading the add deprives the site of revenue. Most adds aren't that obtrusive anyway, and are easy enough to ignore. As for pop-ups, the guy who invented those should be hung from a rooftop by his scrotum.
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#8 2003-01-25 2:19 pm
- Jyri Erik
- Member
- From: Greenbelt, MD
- Registered: 2001-04-21
- Posts: 2418
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
The answer is yes & no.
Yes, blocking pop-ups is a good idea.
No, blocking all ads is a bad idea. (Unless you plan to pay all the sites you regularly visit enough money to keep running. These sites aren't free to run & even a hobby hit sthe point where it's a money drain).
Jyri
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#9 2003-01-25 2:25 pm
- mediocresau
- Forum Default

- From: Mediocre, Honolulu, HI
- Registered: 2002-09-24
- Posts: 3567
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I think that any browser can block ads for only so long. Then the ad companies get smart and find a way around it. Its only a matter of time.
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#10 2003-01-25 3:35 pm
- y2kapostle
- Member
- From: Lancaster, PA
- Registered: 2000-06-01
- Posts: 1376
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Safari DOES HAVE AD BLOCKING!
weblog: www.liveloud.net
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#12 2003-01-25 4:21 pm
- opium
- Member
- From: The greatest city on earth. TO
- Registered: 2001-08-28
- Posts: 1291
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
some one has to pay. paying by ads is way better than paying out of pocket.
Your Mac Life
Tara Maclay: I go online sometimes, but everyone's spelling is really bad, and it's depressing.
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#13 2003-01-25 4:34 pm
- Mazer Rackham
- Member
- From: St. Pete, Florida, United Stat
- Registered: 2002-05-03
- Posts: 1882
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I think ads are an annoying necessity. I think they'll always be around, forever. Companies can't rely on word of mouth alone. They'll always be advertising, and always finding new and more intrusive ways of doing it.
The more annoying it is, the more you notice it. The more you notice it, the more they've succeeded.
(And I've heard some statistics that say people actually click pop ups. Yuck.)
Especially those evil ones that look like alert boxes, and have you clicking on the "OK" part of the window, which then takes you to another site with more pop-up windows.
I felt bad for my dad when he told me he got some pop up at work. It was one of those "You've been approved for a computer upgrade... yadda yadda click here to continue." And he called his tech guys and the IT department and everything. He said he spent a couple hours trying to figure it out.
He's just too naive to understand it was a trick. Poor guy.
"Early to bed, early to rise makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes." -Mazer Rackham
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#14 2003-01-25 4:42 pm
- registered_user
- bulletproof
- From: padding: zero-pixels;
- Registered: 2000-12-19
- Posts: 16026
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
pop-ups bother me, though I'm used to it, but I don't care about the others. So... meh.
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#15 2003-01-25 4:48 pm
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I've never blocked image adds, because many adds are based on load counts, not click counts, so not loading the add deprives the site of revenue. Most adds aren't that obtrusive anyway, and are easy enough to ignore. As for pop-ups, the guy who invented those should be hung from a rooftop by his scrotum.
I believe even browsers who block ads do send requests for the images, but that they just don't go through the act of displaying them.
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#16 2003-01-25 4:48 pm
- Czachorski
- Member

- Registered: 2002-12-20
- Posts: 5585
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I don't have any problem with passive advertising. Things like a reasonable sized banner or clip on a web page that contains and ad is fine, but pop up ads are evil. If you think about it, aren't pop-up ads just a logical extension of a TV commercial? Both interrupt the natural flow of the content you are really intersted in. I am just as annoyed by TV commercials as I am by pop-up ads. Luckily, I have the equivalent of a pop up ad killer for my TV. It is called Tivo.
However, I certainly recognize the advantages of delivering content along with advertisements as a viable business model. But very soon, the digital age is going to change the way content providers, including the web, TV, radio, etc., are going to have to deliver ads. With pop-up ad killer in browsers and Tivo like devices becoming more prevalent, they are going to have to find a more consumer palatable option.
I like the model that Tivo has adopted. They have the Tivo units record commercials off of air-time that they have rented from Discover Channel in the middle of the night, and place the ads in the menu, which makes viewing the ads completely the viewers preference. It is a lot like a passive ad on a web page. You might wonder why in the world would someone watch an ad voluntarily, but you would be surprised. It the ad is for a music CD, a movie or a product that interests you, you go watch the ad. I hope that something like this takes over the business model for TV ads.
Tracking the Tech
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#17 2003-01-25 8:48 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I am fine with ads as long as they don't pop up, pop under, flash, screw up layout, look like OS GUIs, or make sounds.
I would like it if safari could load the images but would have a filter similar to omniweb but instead it would load the images but would stop animated gifs from animating or the movies from making sounds.
That way you won't get the strobing "YOU might HAVE WON!"
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#18 2003-01-26 4:32 am
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Banner ads are fine as long as they don't bink incessantly or have interactivity.
Popup ads
floating ads
blinky ads
etc are all inherently evil.
Didn't some spammer figure out how to use WinXP's actual message system to advertise? Or something?
Oh yeah and the Win version of MSN messenger lists all your MS apps in its main window.
To be equal you have to add or subtract. And I have never liked math. People who want to be equal's lives are filled with subtractions and auditions. We will call you back and tell you. - MM
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#19 2003-01-26 6:53 am
- Gary Patterson
- Registered: 2000-09-19
- Posts: 4732
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Downloading advertising images, even for static images, consumes a lot of my bandwidth. I'm on a 56k modem, so I like to maximise my signal to noise ratio. Blocking pop-ups is a start, but banner ads, site ads and other stuff wastes my download time.
Also, ads on a well trafficked site would have a big effect on the Internet (maybe not noticable in the overall picture, but at a local level). The ads are loaded for every viewer, at least once. That's a lot of bandwidth devoted purely to advertising, when the useful stuff (usually the text) requires far less to get information across.
Living in an ad-free world is unreasonable, but I don't have to like the hundreds of ads that present to me every day. I certainly try to avoid buying from those companies, especially if their ads animate.
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#20 2003-01-26 7:38 am
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Interesting topic.
I hate pop-ups as much as the next guy. The fact of the matter is, however, that they're the best source of revenue for site owners, and that's why they're getting so prevalent.
With the coming of Safari, I can actually block the pop-ups, and I do. It's hard to act all high-and-mighty about site revenue after you start to use a browser with Command+K...
I'll just have to convince myself that I've paid my fair share by visiting my favourite sites for years in IE.
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#21 2003-01-26 11:26 am
- registered_user
- bulletproof
- From: padding: zero-pixels;
- Registered: 2000-12-19
- Posts: 16026
- Website
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Actually, what bothers me most about ads is that they write cookies to your drive. Actually, I delcine them, but you'd be surprised how often you get cookie attempts by servedby.advertising.com
They track your interests, and try to advertise accordingly, which is a good start at least so you don't see ads for runnber ball keychains, but I don't the intrusive nature of it.
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#22 2003-01-26 11:39 am
- dinerfan
- a natural, zesty enterprise

- From: the sunny side
- Registered: 2000-12-31
- Posts: 11093
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
I certainly try to avoid buying from those companies, especially if their ads animate.
So do I. I also do the same with companies whose ads are extra obnoxious on TV and radio.
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#23 2003-01-26 12:00 pm
- the J
- Member
- Registered: 2001-11-19
- Posts: 187
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
Pop-up ads are annoying and should be wiped off the fsce of the earth. Regular ads are still dumb, but at least are easy to ignore. I think society is becoming too commerical anyway. Next think you know, there will be ads built into operating systems (sounds like something microsoft would do). Apple has been pretty good with this, like iChat doesn't have ads, right? I don't really know for sure cause I don't have it, but I think that's true.
Anyway screw commercials, screw money too. We should abolish money, and everyone should work towards making society better. Money only serves to force the lazy people into doing something.
All baked beans are made with humans. But what's the secret ingredient?
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#24 2003-01-26 2:57 pm
- ghlbtsk
- I watch you all

- From: Ithaca, NY
- Registered: 2001-11-06
- Posts: 978
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
oops, I voted YES, but meant NO.
This is why no: Website layouts will be messed up (if I understand what you are saying correctly, if not then back to my YES). If those adds suddenly disappear, then all the webdesignder did to layout around it will be ruined.
In my browser that blocks ads (galeon, a GNOME browser based on the mozilla rendering engine), the space the ads would have occupied is still rendered, just as an empty white block. So that's not a problem, at least in some browsers 
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#25 2003-01-26 3:35 pm
Re: Ad blocking in browsers: good or bad, & will Safari get
It'd be great if they implemented ad blocking. I really don't think that ads belong on the internet. Especially damnable pop-up ads.
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