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#1 2005-04-07 10:00 am
- Pithecanthropus
- Roast Master

- From: St. Cloud, MN
- Registered: 2002-12-30
- Posts: 4452
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Florida Residents: Open Fire!
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … scrimeguns
How long will it take for someone to shoot someone else who was minding their own business because they "looked suspicious?" I foresee some poor guy getting killed and it being "justified" by the fact that he had a past criminal record.
And how the hell did this ever make it through the Florida Legislature?
And just to politicize this further: It's nice to see that stupidity runs in the Bush family.
Grandfatherly advice: You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.
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#2 2005-04-07 10:08 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
At first I thought you were kidding. This is truly f*cked up.
"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#3 2005-04-07 10:13 am
- Camp David
- Banned

- Registered: 2003-04-11
- Posts: 6065
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Pithecanthropus wrote:
And how the hell did this ever make it through the Florida Legislature?.
From the article: "Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant. But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant."
Common sense. And self defense.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI: "a simple, humble worker in God's vineyard." Habemus Papem!
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#4 2005-04-07 10:13 am
- Pundit Guy
- Member

- From: Minneapolis
- Registered: 2004-07-12
- Posts: 358
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
AFP wrote:
Republican Governor Jeb Bush, who has said he plans to sign the bill, says it is "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue."
Ever been mistaken for an Middle Easterner? I have. Most white folk don't know a Sri Lankan from a Saud. The idea that some redneck can shoot me on sight and potentially get away with it is apalling. All he has to say is that I looked like I had explosives under my shirt.
What pisses me off is that the Democrats rolled over in the most cowardly way on this.
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#5 2005-04-07 10:16 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Camp David wrote:
Pithecanthropus wrote:
And how the hell did this ever make it through the Florida Legislature?.
From the article: "Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant. But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant."
Common sense. And self defense.
BS
"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#6 2005-04-07 10:20 am
- MrJ in OZ
- Come and get one in the yarbles.

- From: paradise
- Registered: 2005-02-04
- Posts: 3458
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Republican Governor Jeb Bush, who has said he plans to sign the bill, says it is "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue."
I guess stupid IS hereditary.
*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."
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#7 2005-04-07 10:30 am
- gradient
- Member
- Registered: 2002-04-24
- Posts: 3101
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
What is wrong with it? Should we do what Kennedy would prefer and force families to flee their property as soon as it is intruded?
I see nothing wrong with letting people shoot someone if they are intruding on their property.
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#8 2005-04-07 10:31 am
- gradient
- Member
- Registered: 2002-04-24
- Posts: 3101
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Pundit Guy wrote:
AFP wrote:
Republican Governor Jeb Bush, who has said he plans to sign the bill, says it is "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue."
Ever been mistaken for an Middle Easterner? I have. Most white folk don't know a Sri Lankan from a Saud. The idea that some redneck can shoot me on sight and potentially get away with it is apalling. All he has to say is that I looked like I had explosives under my shirt.
What pisses me off is that the Democrats rolled over in the most cowardly way on this.
I'm sorry, I missed the part of the article that says you can shoot someone for not being white.
Do you plan on breaking into a lot of houses soon or what?
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#9 2005-04-07 10:31 am
- Sternum
- Slathered in barbecue sauce

- From: Ribcage
- Registered: 2002-01-10
- Posts: 3349
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Camp David wrote:
Pithecanthropus wrote:
And how the hell did this ever make it through the Florida Legislature?.
From the article: "Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant. But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant."
Common sense. And self defense.
That's the current law. The new law is getting rid of the second half.
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#10 2005-04-07 10:37 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::

- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
How did this get through the Florida legislature?
Simple: it's Florida.
Note: please delete this post.
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#11 2005-04-07 10:40 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
gradient wrote:
What is wrong with it? Should we do what Kennedy would prefer and force families to flee their property as soon as it is intruded?
I see nothing wrong with letting people shoot someone if they are intruding on their property.
Read closer, please. Then realize you post is rather dense.
Current Law as quoted by Campie wrote:
State law allows residents to "shoot to kill" if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant.
Last edited by iBubba (2005-04-07 10:40 am)
"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#12 2005-04-07 10:40 am
- Camp David
- Banned

- Registered: 2003-04-11
- Posts: 6065
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Sternum wrote:
Camp David wrote:
Pithecanthropus wrote:
And how the hell did this ever make it through the Florida Legislature?.
From the article: "Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant. But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant."
Common sense. And self defense.That's the current law. The new law is getting rid of the second half.
When citizens are threatened they shouldn't have to run away, Florida or elsewhere. It's a good law and only the pacifistic liberals would object to citizens haveing the right to defend themselves. The reaction to the law as defined by the posts above detail the traditional understanding, as usual.
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI: "a simple, humble worker in God's vineyard." Habemus Papem!
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#13 2005-04-07 10:44 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Camp David wrote:
Sternum wrote:
Camp David wrote:
From the article: "Current state law allows residents to "shoot to kill if their property, such as their home or car, is invaded by an unknown assailant. But it also states that if a resident is confronted or threatened in a public place, he or she must first try to avoid the confrontation or flee before taking any violent step in self defense against an assailant."
Common sense. And self defense.That's the current law. The new law is getting rid of the second half.
When citizens are threatened they shouldn't have to run away, Florida or elsewhere. It's a good law and only the pacifistic liberals would object to citizens haveing the right to defend themselves. The reaction to the law as defined by the posts above detail the traditional understanding, as usual.
Right. What happens if the criminals are better armd that joe-blow(n away) on the street? Dead citizen.
Even better: How many mistaken "I felt threatened" situations will sufficently give credence to declaring this "law" null and void?
Another thought: It will actually become easier to commit homicide with this law on the books. "Hey, the guy was threatening me, so I blew him away." Actually, it could be as simple as a disagreement over a parking spot or the position of the fence between properties... there are a million ways this could be abused.
Not to mention the situations where people may (legally or otherwise) be under the influence of alcohol or drugs...
Last edited by iBubba (2005-04-07 10:46 am)
"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#14 2005-04-07 10:48 am
- Pundit Guy
- Member

- From: Minneapolis
- Registered: 2004-07-12
- Posts: 358
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
gradient wrote:
Pundit Guy wrote:
AFP wrote:
Republican Governor Jeb Bush, who has said he plans to sign the bill, says it is "a good, commonsense, anti-crime issue."
Ever been mistaken for an Middle Easterner? I have. Most white folk don't know a Sri Lankan from a Saud. The idea that some redneck can shoot me on sight and potentially get away with it is apalling. All he has to say is that I looked like I had explosives under my shirt.
What pisses me off is that the Democrats rolled over in the most cowardly way on this.I'm sorry, I missed the part of the article that says you can shoot someone for not being white.
Do you plan on breaking into a lot of houses soon or what?
Reading is fundamental. You obviously didn't read the article that started this discussion, or do any homework before posting. Let me help.
AFP wrote:
Florida's legislature has approved a bill that would give residents the right to open fire against anyone they perceive as a threat in public, instead of having to try to avoid a conflict as under prevailing law.
Operative phrase: "in public." This has nothing to do with residences. Under this bill, if I'm walking down the street and some redneck perceives me as a threat, he can shoot me.
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#15 2005-04-07 10:55 am
- ShnickyShnack
- ::: title edited due to Satanic influences :::

- From: Rockin' out
- Registered: 2001-05-25
- Posts: 22237
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
I don't think I'll ever understand the whole "property is worth gunplay" thing.
Note: please delete this post.
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#16 2005-04-07 11:01 am
- Camp David
- Banned

- Registered: 2003-04-11
- Posts: 6065
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Pundit Guy wrote:
Under this bill, if I'm walking down the street and some redneck perceives me as a threat, he can shoot me.
Then if you were you, Pundit Guy, I would be extra courteous to every Redneck you meet! Especially in Florida!
Hint: Complimenting their truck goes far toward making friends in Dixie!
Last edited by Camp David (2005-04-07 11:04 am)
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger/Benedict XVI: "a simple, humble worker in God's vineyard." Habemus Papem!
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#17 2005-04-07 11:04 am
- Pundit Guy
- Member

- From: Minneapolis
- Registered: 2004-07-12
- Posts: 358
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Camp David wrote:
Pundit Guy wrote:
Under this bill, if I'm walking down the street and some redneck perceives me as a threat, he can shoot me.
Then if you were you, Pundit Guy, I would be extra courteous to every Redneck you meet! Especially in Florida!
Maybe I should just have a gun handy, in case some redneck looks at me funny.
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#18 2005-04-07 11:05 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Camp David wrote:
Pundit Guy wrote:
Under this bill, if I'm walking down the street and some redneck perceives me as a threat, he can shoot me.
Then if you were you, Pundit Guy, I would be extra courteous to every Redneck you meet! Especially in Florida!
Hint: Complimenting their truck goes far toward making friends in Dixie!
This is a joke to you? Jesus Christ, in and of itself I would consider the above statment damned close to isaly's reason for being banned, since much of isaley's "threat" was precieved by reading between the lines.
After all, we all know Camp David drives a truck!
Last edited by iBubba (2005-04-07 11:07 am)
"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#19 2005-04-07 11:17 am
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Here's the CNN article. Not quite as biased.
Not sure how I feel about it. Most states do allow you to use deadly force in self-defense. I see it as a risk someone takes when threatening another. If you're going to pull a weapon on someone, then be prepared to be injured or killed yourself. I don't really have a problem with people defending themselves. Call it natural selection at work.
Still, there are many other problems. Many people will try to defend themselves and wind up getting killed (again, natural selection at work). The situations where deadly force may be authorized need to be clearly spelled out, otherwise people who do defend themselves will be sent to prison. Non-lethal alternatives and avoidance should be stressed.
Getting into the sticky religious issue however, I can't really see how using deadly force, even in self-defense, really meshes well with christian dogma. I don't think that JC would have been packing heat in his day and chastised Peter when he used force in Gethsemane.
It is an odd thing, but every one who disappears is said to be seen at San Francisco. It must be a delightful city, and possess all the attractions of the next world.
- Oscar Wilde
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#20 2005-04-07 11:19 am
- JakeTheTall
- Cargo Cultist

- From: In Permanent Opposition
- Registered: 2003-03-13
- Posts: 9613
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
gradient wrote:
What is wrong with it? Should we do what Kennedy would prefer and force families to flee their property as soon as it is intruded?
I see nothing wrong with letting people shoot someone if they are intruding on their property.
DAMN STRAIGHT!!! As part of their Communist agenda, the Democrats would have honest, hard-working and God-fearing Americans be FORCED to give up their private property to whatever person intruded on their land, in order to undermine private property and further their evil Red plans!
In celebration of this law passing, I think everyone should go out and buy an additional hangun!!!
Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim. Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet." They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.
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#21 2005-04-07 11:25 am
- MrJ in OZ
- Come and get one in the yarbles.

- From: paradise
- Registered: 2005-02-04
- Posts: 3458
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
next they'll try to bring back lynchings down south.
Anyone who look like they might be considering threating you can be lynched.
*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."
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#22 2005-04-07 11:29 am
- iBubba
- Displaced

- From: central Iowa
- Registered: 2000-10-06
- Posts: 7109
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
JakeTheTall wrote:
gradient wrote:
What is wrong with it? Should we do what Kennedy would prefer and force families to flee their property as soon as it is intruded?
I see nothing wrong with letting people shoot someone if they are intruding on their property.DAMN STRAIGHT!!! As part of their Communist agenda, the Democrats would have honest, hard-working and God-fearing Americans be FORCED to give up their private property to whatever person intruded on their land, in order to undermine private property and further their evil Red plans!
In celebration of this law passing, I think everyone should go out and buy an additional hangun!!!

"Hell, I'm sure Og had some cool way of banging two rocks together, until he took himself too seriously."
- Pithecanthropus
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#23 2005-04-07 11:31 am
- dinerfan
- a natural, zesty enterprise

- From: the sunny side
- Registered: 2000-12-31
- Posts: 11093
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
robco wrote:
Getting into the sticky religious issue however, I can't really see how using deadly force, even in self-defense, really meshes well with christian dogma. I don't think that JC would have been packing heat in his day and chastised Peter when he used force in Gethsemane.
Jesus had special powers, though. Since mere morals lack the power to change a flying bullet into a harmless flower or an evildoer into a pillar of salt, I'd figure a special dispensation is in order.
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#24 2005-04-07 11:33 am
- Ribtorus
- Member

- Registered: 2002-07-11
- Posts: 13749
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
The culture of property trumps the culture of life.
Threats to one's person is understandable, but perhaps the culture of ownership states that a person's property is an extension of themselves. That's sad.
when surrounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
and go to your god like a soldier...
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#25 2005-04-07 11:43 am
- The New Guy
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- From: Left of left
- Registered: 2000-10-18
- Posts: 3422
Re: Florida Residents: Open Fire!
Culture of Life
The car of the future is a train with a bike waiting at the other end.
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