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#1 2003-01-26 11:44 am
- the J
- Member
- Registered: 2001-11-19
- Posts: 187
Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I was watching a show on tv about travelling out of the solar system and was pretty depressed afterwards. It seems that many scientists, including einstein, think that faster than light travel will never be possible. That would limit us to our solar system or maybe some other close systems, except it would take really long. So what does everyone else think? I personally do hope that a warp drive or similar device will enable us to venture out into the galaxy, otherwise it would be such a waste to work towards a great civilization, and then have it wiped out when the sun expands in 5 billion years.
BTW, if this seems like a really random topic, I am a really random person.
All baked beans are made with humans. But what's the secret ingredient?
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#2 2003-01-26 12:04 pm
- primenumber
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- From: CT
- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 416
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I think its a good topic. The answer is yes. We dont know everything there is to know right now about how the universe works. I believe that in 100 or so years the so called "light barrier" will have been broken somehow. Think of how much we didnt know 100 years ago. Back then sending men into orbit was a fanatsy. Granted we havent come very far since we did achieve orbit, but that is due entirely to poor priorities not lack of ability. We should have colonies on Mars by now and be exploring the outer Solar System. We would if the govt had been giving the space program enough money.
The "light barrier" will not hold us back if we take the time and effort to solve the problem. My personal opinion, based on my limited knowledge of physics, is that we will learn to use the curvature of space-time in such a way that we will move between 2 points very quickly without moving through all of the points in between. Although its also possible that we will discover that Einstein's equations break down in certain extreme conditions (much like Newton's do) and we will exploit that to move fast enough to reach other stars.
In any event, none of this will happen unless we choose to spend the time and resources necessary to achieve this level of technology. Most people today dont see this as a priority. Its a shame because the danger of something happening like the movie "Deep Impact" is just as real as the danger of Saddam Hussien is except that its a danger to everyone on the planet. It should be a huge priority because the survival of the human race is why we are all here. We are extremely vulnerable on only one planet and we need to expand to ensure our survival. The dinosaurs ruled the planet for millions of years but never got off it, and now we study their bones. I hope the human race has a better future.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. -Friedrich Nietzsche
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#3 2003-01-26 12:09 pm
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
You left out an important option in your poll. A faster than light drive is not required to reach the stars. A sublight drive is perfectly adequate as long as a generation or two of living in space is provided for. We could populate the stars with today's tech. We merely lack the will and the need.
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#4 2003-01-26 12:15 pm
- the J
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- Registered: 2001-11-19
- Posts: 187
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
You left out an important option in your poll. A faster than light drive is not required to reach the stars. A sublight drive is perfectly adequate as long as a generation or two of living in space is provided for. We could populate the stars with today's tech. We merely lack the will and the need.
D'oh! I wasn't thinking about that. You are right, it would only take several generations living aboard an "ark" or something, but it is still possible. Too bad I can't edit the poll now.
All baked beans are made with humans. But what's the secret ingredient?
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#5 2003-01-26 12:26 pm
- primenumber
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- From: CT
- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 416
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
You left out an important option in your poll. A faster than light drive is not required to reach the stars. A sublight drive is perfectly adequate as long as a generation or two of living in space is provided for. We could populate the stars with today's tech. We merely lack the will and the need.
Thats a great point Kirk, but either way we will need a huge technology leap to accomplish the goal. Building a ship big enough to contain that kind of self sustainable ecology for that many years will be difficult and then we need a propulsion system strong enough to push a huge ship at a pretty good velocity so that the trip doesnt take too many generations. Its gonna take alot of engineering to get there either way.
Im hoping that we do it no matter what it takes. 
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. -Friedrich Nietzsche
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#6 2003-01-26 1:21 pm
- delta wolph
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- From: SoCal
- Registered: 2002-12-30
- Posts: 3471
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
it will take a lot of new technology either way.
but also, some people have doubted that an ark would work, because you have a limited popultion aboard a constrained area. you will naturaly have rebellion, and many other factors which will not help the mission at all.
plus, the long term effects of living in space are yet unknown...
plus, if it takes several minutes to communicate with mars, it will take that much longer to talk to the "ark". unless we develop a lot of new technology, this seems impossible within the near future...
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#7 2003-01-26 3:44 pm
- SwisSlesS
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- From: Home of the Massholes
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- Posts: 8307
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
Of course it'll happen, it's only a matter of time. Although, come to think of it, man kind will probably be extinct by the time we would be able to reach the stars. If we had infinite time, it would definitely happen, but the way we're going, we probably won't be around for long enough.
I'm a dog, spelled backwards.
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#8 2003-01-26 3:52 pm
- Mazer Rackham
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- From: St. Pete, Florida, United Stat
- Registered: 2002-05-03
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Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
Of course it'll happen, it's only a matter of time. Although, come to think of it, man kind will probably be extinct by the time we would be able to reach the stars. If we had infinite time, it would definitely happen, but the way we're going, we probably won't be around for long enough.
I agree. We'll probably nuke ourselves to hell before we get beyond Mars.
I voted no, I side with Einstein on the whole FTL deal 
"Early to bed, early to rise makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes." -Mazer Rackham
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#9 2003-01-26 3:53 pm
- Alpha Moonbase
- Guest
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I absolutely believe so. We have to.
At one time heaver than air flight was once thought impossible.
Man may not produce an intersteller craft from scratch but may aquire the technology from an ailen race. Hell, we propably have parts to one now...
#10 2003-01-26 3:57 pm
- jkahless
- Member

- From: Right in front of you.
- Registered: 2002-01-05
- Posts: 10011
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
It is only a matter of time before someone gets around that speed limit of 300000kms/s. All we have to do is be able to manipulate space time. 
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#11 2003-01-26 4:20 pm
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
It's gonna happen. It's inevitable. Mankind will always progress.
Everything that has been a major breakthrough has been poo-pooed by so-called "Experts".
To be equal you have to add or subtract. And I have never liked math. People who want to be equal's lives are filled with subtractions and auditions. We will call you back and tell you. - MM
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#13 2003-01-26 5:42 pm
- Edward
- Addicted to this place

- From: morF
- Registered: 2002-12-08
- Posts: 3699
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
It's gonna happen. It's inevitable. Mankind will always progress.
Everything that has been a major breakthrough has been poo-pooed by so-called "Experts".
Ahhhh, but here is a thought. What if man kind kills itself off before we can progress this far. It's possible that we would kill ourselfs through nuclear war, or ploution while we are developing. Thats the one probem with this mankind will always progress theory. Oh well. 
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#14 2003-01-26 5:43 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

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Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I don't see the point of this thread.
Maybe it should be, "should we travel to the stars" and not "will we." Much hotter topic.
Like, should we focus on exploring before we fix ourselves? It ties in with the "Will we nuke ourselves before we get a chance" comment.
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#15 2003-01-26 6:50 pm
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
Yes, but only if we survive that long... given infinate time, definatly yes. However, time is limited
"The only thing better than a woman you can control in bed, is one that you can't."
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#16 2003-01-26 7:12 pm
- the J
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- Registered: 2001-11-19
- Posts: 187
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I don't see the point of this thread.
Maybe it should be, "should we travel to the stars" and not "will we." Much hotter topic.
Like, should we focus on exploring before we fix ourselves? It ties in with the "Will we nuke ourselves before we get a chance" comment.
Maybe exploring space could be the way that we fix the human race. If we had a common goal we could put aside some of the petty differences for the greater good. I would agree though that we need some maturing as a species, if we didn't we would probably start all kinds of trouble. However, when the human race comes out of its infancy, I believe it will one day, we should definately go and see what is out there.
All baked beans are made with humans. But what's the secret ingredient?
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#17 2003-01-26 7:19 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

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- Posts: 30229
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
Indeed.
I am not sure if we should be focusing on sending people to Mars right now when we got the world falling apart.
I think we should explore when the governments are stabalized and the people are at least getting fed.
If we go too soon we will just have another set of wars like what happened when the Americas were discovered by Europe.
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#18 2003-01-26 8:00 pm
- goodvibes
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- From: Melbourne, Australia
- Registered: 2001-10-16
- Posts: 1138
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
According to some of the stuff I've read, the speed of light is not an absolute barrier to space travel. You can travel faster or slower than the speed of light, but not at the speed of light. How you accelerate to speeds faster than light without being at the speed of light for an instant is a mystery to me.
Also, on Earth there are some things that travel faster than light: atomic particles called tachyons, and in waveguides there are patterns of electromagnetic fields which travel faster than light, but there is no way to use them to send a message. (Waveguides are rectangular-section metal pipes used to deliver Super-High Frequency radio waves to an antenna.)
Arthur C Clarke wrote an essay called "Things ThatGo Faster Than Light" and I'm sure that Isaac Asimov will have something about this in his collections of essays.
If you have a way to accelerate continuously, you can reach the speed of light in a little over a year. At that sort of speed relativistic time dilation becomes something measurable. The apparent time inside the spaceship is shorter than the time outside. What is a ten year trip at the speed of light seems to be only a couple of years inside the ship.
Time For The Stars by Robert Heinlein as an easy way to get to understand this stuff. It's the first juvenile novel I've read that has an equation from Albert Einstein in it.
It's hard to fly like a turkey when you're up to your ass in alligators.
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#19 2003-01-26 10:58 pm
- petikas
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- From: Cyprus
- Registered: 2000-11-12
- Posts: 3601
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
Speed faster than the speed of light is attainable and you can do it right at your home. Here's how. Take two pieces of paper and put one over the other at an angle so that they form an intersection. Now begin to tilt them until that intersection moves along the edge of the papers and eventually you get those to pieces of paper parallel to each other (intersection disappears) and then you continue tilting until the intersection reappears on the other side of the papers. In that interval of time the said intersection has traveled to infinity and back (remember that parallel lines don't intersect) thus greatly surpassing the speed of light. The down side is that you cannot transmit information in the process so it doesn't really counts.
Oh and with todays technology we cannot travel to the stars no matter how many generations are willing to live in space. First the closest star is about 4 light years away. By assumming that we can travel at a speed of 50 000 Km/hr (which we can't) it would still take us upwards of 85 000 years to go there. And at that speed there is no significant time dilation to really affect that amount of time. As far as I know there is no material available to us that would stand the temperatures on a star. Plus the huge gravitational forces on a star would propably make you crash on the star's surface rather than land. And how much fuel and what kind of engines would such a spaceship have to last for 85 000 years. And all this is for the closet star, other stars are far far far away. Some of the galaxies we see are billions of light years away. It would be a real bumer to set on a journey to one of those galaxies only to find out midway that the galaxie has seazed to exit half a billion years ago.
The methods of science are manifestly effective, having made massive humanitarian contributions to society. It is this very effectiveness which the purveyors of mystical philosophies attack, because they recognise in it the chief threat to the belief-based source of their power and financial reward. -Harry Kroto, Nobel Laureate
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#20 2003-01-26 11:16 pm
- Slarty
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- From: MAF. Duh.
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- Posts: 1938
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I think that the world's scientists should collaborate in a scheme to make it seem like we were contacted by aliens from outer space, then they make us build a giant machine, then they put someone in and use it and she comes back immediately and says that she went somewhere but she was only gone for an instant so everyone thinks she's lying but she has 17 hours of blank video tape so how'd that happen, huh?
That's what I think.
Git off my lawn, ya durn kids!
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#21 2003-01-26 11:21 pm
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I think that the world's scientists should collaborate in a scheme to make it seem like we were contacted by aliens from outer space, then they make us build a giant machine, then they put someone in and use it and she comes back immediately and says that she went somewhere but she was only gone for an instant so everyone thinks she's lying but she has 17 hours of blank video tape so how'd that happen, huh?
That's what I think.
And they could make a movie about it?
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#22 2003-01-26 11:27 pm
- Slarty
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- From: MAF. Duh.
- Registered: 2002-08-25
- Posts: 1938
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I think that the world's scientists should collaborate in a scheme to make it seem like we were contacted by aliens from outer space, then they make us build a giant machine, then they put someone in and use it and she comes back immediately and says that she went somewhere but she was only gone for an instant so everyone thinks she's lying but she has 17 hours of blank video tape so how'd that happen, huh?
That's what I think.And they could make a movie about it?
Well, write a book first.
Git off my lawn, ya durn kids!
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#23 2003-01-26 11:43 pm
- Slarty
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- From: MAF. Duh.
- Registered: 2002-08-25
- Posts: 1938
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
All kidding aside, mo'ron is probabaly right. Going faster than sound or putting people in space was just a matter of getting the Newtonian physics right. But going faster than light involves breaking some very sound theories regarding that. Now, if it were possible to "fold" space, maybe. But one has to think about it. It would take an enormous amount of energy to do something like that. It would take an enormous amount of energy just to get something to go half the speed of light. And we don't know what sort of relativity effects there might be at those speeds. It might be possible to make a probe or something that goes close to the speed of light. But putting people on it and having them survive the trip is another question entirely.
In the sort term, we might build "arks" that will take us to nearby places. Problem is, there isn't anything particularly interesting nearby. The closest stars have no planets, so there's not much point going there.
I think it's a better idea to deal with our own solar system than monkey with interstellar travel. Besides, we all know that we'll meet up with some sort of crazy human-eating aliens and when we first introduce ourselves we'll make some sort of social gaff and they'll eat us.
Git off my lawn, ya durn kids!
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#24 2003-01-27 12:06 am
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
At the rate we're finding planets these days, I wouldn't be surprised if most stars have planets and further that most of those have a suitable planet for us. Suitable being broadly defined as somewhat better than Mars in atmosphere, water and gravitational field strength. I think we'll wait until the next generation of scopes can firmly pin down the near certainty of a suitable planet around a particular star. Then we'll build an ark and send it off.
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#25 2003-01-27 12:18 am
- Fracai
- Evacipate

- From: St. Elsewhere
- Registered: 2000-05-25
- Posts: 2835
Re: Will mankind ever reach the stars?
I always liked the old idea put forth by my uncle.
When cars (or trains?) were being built people thought we wouldn't be able to travel faster than 30mph. Any faster and you'd explode or something.
unless that was him just telling me more stories...hmmm
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