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Who says you can't flush Q'urans down the commode?  I think it's just not an acceptable way to abuse prisoners of war, is all.

Cyberpawz wrote:

Metacell wrote:

Who says you can't flush Q'urans down the commode?  I think it's just not an acceptable way to abuse prisoners of war, is all.

How is it abuse?

It is abuse, by American standards, because to deliberately desecrate the Q'uran in front of Muslim fundamentalists attacks their dignity. 
Deliberately attacking someone's dignity is cruel and unusual punishment, again, by American standards, which is considered abuse under the 8th Amendment.

Cyberpawz wrote:

zdecker wrote:

Cyberpawz wrote:

How is it abuse?

It is abuse, by American standards, because to deliberately desecrate the Q'uran in front of Muslim fundamentalists attacks their dignity. 
Deliberately attacking someone's dignity is cruel and unusual punishment, again, by American standards, which is considered abuse under the 8th Amendment.

As far as I know the majority, if not all of the prisoners aren't American citizens, they don't have any protection under the constitution at all. Prisoners of War, and Enemies of the State do not have the same protection or privileges you or I do.  And in this case the 8th Amendment is null and void.

The 8th Amendment professes that cruel and unusual punishment is not permitted in this country.  To not allow such abuse is a core American principle. 

To exact such punishment on others, regardless of their nationality, is dishonorable. 

I do not argue about its legality, but simply its hypocrisy. 


In any case, your original question was "How is it abuse?"  --I laid out how desecrating the Q'uran would be considered abuse under American law. 
If that is not satisfactory, then please specify what standard you wish to use when considering whether or not this qualifies as abuse.

Cyberpawz wrote:

zdecker wrote:

Cyberpawz wrote:

As far as I know the majority, if not all of the prisoners aren't American citizens, they don't have any protection under the constitution at all. Prisoners of War, and Enemies of the State do not have the same protection or privileges you or I do.  And in this case the 8th Amendment is null and void.

The 8th Amendment professes that cruel and unusual punishment is not permitted in this country.  To not allow such abuse is a core American principle. 

To exact such punishment on others, regardless of their nationality, is dishonorable. 

I do not argue about its legality, but simply its hypocrisy. 


In any case, your original question was "How is it abuse?"  --I laid out how desecrating the Q'uran would be considered abuse under American law. 
If that is not satisfactory, then please specify what standard you wish to use when considering whether or not this qualifies as abuse.

And as I said before the people in whom we are doing this to are not american citizens, nor do they have the same rights as Citizens of the US when they are declared enemy of the state, or held as POWs.  When it comes to that stipulation they are held under the Geneva convention, not the constitution.

The US Constitution only protects those who are US citizens, not anyone else.

I'm fully aware of that; hence my statement, "I do not argue about its legality, but simply its hypocrisy."

The Geneva convention, as I'm sure you are aware, also does not apply seeing as how the U.S. is denying that these prisoners are POWs. 

You asked, "How is it abuse?" 
Again, I ask you to specify what standard you wish to use when considering whether or not this qualifies as abuse.

zdecker wrote:

Cyberpawz wrote:

zdecker wrote:

The 8th Amendment professes that cruel and unusual punishment is not permitted in this country.  To not allow such abuse is a core American principle. 

To exact such punishment on others, regardless of their nationality, is dishonorable. 

I do not argue about its legality, but simply its hypocrisy. 


In any case, your original question was "How is it abuse?"  --I laid out how desecrating the Q'uran would be considered abuse under American law. 
If that is not satisfactory, then please specify what standard you wish to use when considering whether or not this qualifies as abuse.

And as I said before the people in whom we are doing this to are not american citizens, nor do they have the same rights as Citizens of the US when they are declared enemy of the state, or held as POWs.  When it comes to that stipulation they are held under the Geneva convention, not the constitution.

The US Constitution only protects those who are US citizens, not anyone else.

I'm fully aware of that; hence my statement, "I do not argue about its legality, but simply its hypocrisy."

The Geneva convention, as I'm sure you are aware, also does not apply seeing as how the U.S. is denying that these prisoners are POWs. 

You asked, "How is it abuse?" 
Again, I ask you to specify what standard you wish to use when considering whether or not this qualifies as abuse.

For me it would be the Geneva Convention personally.

Funny that instead of holding freedoms sacred, most people seem more concerned with protecting symbols of their favorite institutions that delimit what is "free." Freedom is no longer freedom, but the protection of constructs which keep freedom free of common people questioning boundaries of what they are allowed to do as free moral agents.

Last edited by StaticAge (2005-05-29 2:42 pm)