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#1 2005-07-23 2:53 pm
- bratboy
- laden with emotion
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Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
LONDON - The man shot and killed on a subway car by London police in front of horrified commuters had nothing to do with this month's bombings on the city's transit system, police said Saturday in expressing their regrets.
Sounds just a bit overzealous, doesn't it? It sounds like he was ran down, knocked to the ground, and shot to death.
Last edited by bratboy (2005-07-23 2:54 pm)
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
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#2 2005-07-23 3:06 pm
- Zetetic Apparatchik
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
What's worse is that the Met. isn't confirming who the killers were. Could be plain-clothes but the BBC is bandying around the words 'special forces'. It's also disturbing that we have armed police on our streets.
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#3 2005-07-23 3:33 pm
- PantherAmI
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
The anti-war movement in the UK has been getting too loud. The dissenters of the UK should just shut-up and let the authorities fight their war on terror lest they get mistaken for terrorists. You see, it could happen to anyone, anywhere, and who'd blame the authorities - they're here to protect us after all. Just shut-up. 
"Loyalty secured through fear requires more fear to reinforce it"
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#4 2005-07-23 3:38 pm
- jkahless
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
I just hope bombers don't use dead man switches.
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#5 2005-07-23 3:54 pm
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
What worries me most is that this will happen to a disabled person, high functioning autistics are able to go to work by themselves etc. and usually use public transportation, and would not respond well in that type of situation - and likely have something like this happen to them.
Like that autistic child in Texas who got into trouble because a substitute teacher had not been properly trained and did some things that were very wrong, resulting in the cops coming and hand cuffing the kid - who to this day now is scared of anyone in a police uniform.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
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#6 2005-07-23 4:03 pm
- bratboy
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
resedit wrote:
What worries me most is that this will happen to a disabled person, high functioning autistics are able to go to work by themselves etc. and usually use public transportation, and would not respond well in that type of situation - and likely have something like this happen to them.
Like that autistic child in Texas who got into trouble because a substitute teacher had not been properly trained and did some things that were very wrong, resulting in the cops coming and hand cuffing the kid - who to this day now is scared of anyone in a police uniform.
Right...and this wasn't a case of, "excuse me sir, we need to talk to you."
"I was sitting on the train,' Mark Whitby said. "I heard a lot of noise, people saying, 'Get out, get down.' I saw an Asian guy. He ran on to the train, he was hotly pursued by three plain clothes officers, one of them was wielding a black handgun. He half tripped. They pushed him to the floor and basically unloaded five shots into him."
They were in plain clothes!
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#7 2005-07-23 4:03 pm
- Ribtorus
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
How's this for disturbing:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163420,00.html
...What is also good is the Brit police tactics that we saw at work in the subway Friday morning. The tackle and kill team is incredible, if for no other reason than their bravery. Can you imagine the job of those cops? Tackle the guy wearing a vest bomb and hope your colleague is right behind with the gun to put five bullets in the noggin before he sets off the bomb.
Turns out he didn't have a bomb, and turns out he wasn't one of the four bombers Thursday. And if it turns out ultimately that he had nothing to do with anything, no doubt there will be hell to pay. But the police say he was linked to the terror probe, so let's wait and see.
Meantime, got to admire the cojones of those Brit cops to go after him like that. All of this trumps any of my other complaints that the Brits weren't making the right noises about fighting terror. They like to go about things a bit more quietly than us. Not my style, but okay, fine
when surrounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
and go to your god like a soldier...
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#8 2005-07-23 4:05 pm
- bratboy
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
That's pretty sick.
"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."
--Paul Krugman
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#9 2005-07-23 4:24 pm
- Ribtorus
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
It turns out the dead guy was a Brazilian citizen.
I suppose that Foxnews opinion guy still has some room to let out a cheer though; Brazil has a left of centre government.
Last edited by Ribtorus (2005-07-23 4:24 pm)
when surrounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
and the women come out to cut up what remains,
just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
and go to your god like a soldier...
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#10 2005-07-23 4:28 pm
- [MA] Flying_Meat
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
some nitwit wrote:
"Don't complain that sounds barbaric. We're fighting barbaric."
proving it is ok to become the folk you dispise.
...and watch out for the flying meat!
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#11 2005-07-23 4:39 pm
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
Ribtorus wrote:
It turns out the dead guy was a Brazilian citizen.
I suppose that Foxnews opinion guy still has some room to let out a cheer though; Brazil has a left of centre government.
What did he say when he reported it?
I'm curious.
Nevermind - you quoted it.
Me stupid.
Last edited by resedit (2005-07-23 4:40 pm)
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#12 2005-07-23 4:47 pm
- [Tycho?]
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
Ribtorus wrote:
How's this for disturbing:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163420,00.html...What is also good is the Brit police tactics that we saw at work in the subway Friday morning. The tackle and kill team is incredible, if for no other reason than their bravery. Can you imagine the job of those cops? Tackle the guy wearing a vest bomb and hope your colleague is right behind with the gun to put five bullets in the noggin before he sets off the bomb.
Turns out he didn't have a bomb, and turns out he wasn't one of the four bombers Thursday. And if it turns out ultimately that he had nothing to do with anything, no doubt there will be hell to pay. But the police say he was linked to the terror probe, so let's wait and see.
Meantime, got to admire the cojones of those Brit cops to go after him like that. All of this trumps any of my other complaints that the Brits weren't making the right noises about fighting terror. They like to go about things a bit more quietly than us. Not my style, but okay, fine
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#13 2005-07-23 4:49 pm
- bedstuy
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
Ribtorus wrote:
It turns out the dead guy was a Brazilian citizen.
Pesky profiling of swarthy men!
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#14 2005-07-23 4:54 pm
- [MA] Flying_Meat
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
...and watch out for the flying meat!
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#15 2005-07-23 5:50 pm
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
I don't believe so.
I think it does qualify as excessive use of force, however.
Not like US cops have never done the same thing ...
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#16 2005-07-23 6:05 pm
- Podesta
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
Just plain bollixed. Police Commissioner Ian Blair is said to be interested in having British police carry firearms more often. This is a heck of a way to get support for the policy. I'm going to guess the plain clothes cops interpreted the guy not stopping and then running as meaning he was dangerous. He, on the other hand, probably considered them dangerous. Poor communication equaled death.
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#17 2005-07-23 6:08 pm
- [MA] Flying_Meat
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
resedit wrote:
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
I don't believe so.
I think it does qualify as excessive use of force, however.
Not like US cops have never done the same thing ...
ah. carry on. we do it, so we have no right to complain about their doing it.
surprise! that argument has been made (i know, not by you). it's a stupid argument.
but thank scrod the officer had a gun, or that poor officer might have wasted a lot of time beating that unarmed swarthy suspect to death, eh?
or *gasp* broken a knuckle and had to take paid leave while visiting the national health clinic of his choice on the public's dime.
oh the humanity!!! 
...and watch out for the flying meat!
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#18 2005-07-23 6:10 pm
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
resedit wrote:
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
I don't believe so.
I think it does qualify as excessive use of force, however.
Not like US cops have never done the same thing ...ah. carry on. we do it, so we have no right to complain about their doing it.
surprise! that argument has been made (i know, not by you). it's a stupid argument.
That's not at all what I was saying.
It is wrong in Brittain - and it is wrong here.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#19 2005-07-23 8:30 pm
- freakoutjackson
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
resedit wrote:
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
I don't believe so.
I think it does qualify as excessive use of force, however.
How bout murder?!
Jesus H. Murphy!
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#20 2005-07-23 9:27 pm
- smilr
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
freakoutjackson wrote:
resedit wrote:
[MA] Flying_Meat wrote:
does that qualify it as a hate crime?
I don't believe so.
I think it does qualify as excessive use of force, however.How bout murder?!
Jesus H. Murphy!
Agreed - for crying out loud they already TACKLED the man, I doubt he would really resist after being pinned to the ground and threatened at gunpoint (though I can't know for certain, I was not there of course.) Is this standing policy to shoot DEAD any man feared to be wearing an explosive device? What about the aforementioned possibility of dead-man triggers? Plumb CRAZY.
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#21 2005-07-24 12:07 am
- Podesta
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
Bingo! According to today's papers, Britain's official policy is now to use deadly force against terrorism suspects if officers think it necessary. Open questions: How are they to determine who is a terrorism suspect? What if officers' suspicions are biased or otherwise unreasonable?
According to the same sources, about seven percent of British police are qualified to carry a firearm or use a Taser. However, actual practice is probably a lot fewer armed officers than qualify.
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#22 2005-07-24 12:44 am
- mo' ron
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
As a non-arab, brown skin person (also from South America), i'm disturbed that they may have mistaken this guy for a suicide-bomb wielding arab (which resulted in his death) partially just because of the way he looked. I try to fool myself that they use other metrics other that merely skin color to judge people, but this report makes that delusion just a tiny bit harder to make.
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#23 2005-07-25 8:29 am
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
I wonder why he ran from the police? Seems to me in this day and age if a gun touting police officer says stop you stop or get shot.
Make it idiot-proof, and someone will make a better idiot.
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#24 2005-07-25 8:42 am
Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
almaink wrote:
I wonder why he ran from the police? Seems to me in this day and age if a gun touting police officer says stop you stop or get shot.
Plainclothes. Coulda' been anyone.
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#25 2005-07-25 8:46 am
- Farmerkev
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Re: Does anyone else find this distrubing? (London related)
oatmeal wrote:
almaink wrote:
I wonder why he ran from the police? Seems to me in this day and age if a gun touting police officer says stop you stop or get shot.
Plainclothes. Coulda' been anyone.
That didn't say "Police, stop!"?
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