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Tria wrote:

jeff-o wrote:

The only other fuel I can think of that might be suitable for airplanes is hydrogen, burned in turbines like a fuel.  However, I don't think the range would be nearly as great as with petroleum-based fuel.

Not to mention the "hydrogen economy" is the biggest scam since enron.

Well, once the petrol runs out, they better MAKE it work or we're all screwed.

Oh, we're going to be screwed, all-right - but, don't pay any attention to me, I'm just some kinda crazed Mad Maxer....

Tria wrote:

jeff-o wrote:

Tria wrote:

Not to mention the "hydrogen economy" is the biggest scam since enron.

Well, once the petrol runs out, they better MAKE it work or we're all screwed.

What on earth makes you think the hydrogen economy will work once the oil runs out?  They use oil to manufacture the freakin' hydrogen.

Solar and wind farms will be needed to separate water into hydrogen and oxygen.  Power tools like lawn mowers and weed whackers will be all-electric.  Smaller transport vehicles like motorcycles, cars and trucks will be hydrogen/electric or all-electric.  Larger vehicles like planes will be fueled by petrol long after it is no longer available to consumers, while engineers figure out a new fuel source with enough energy density to power transatlantic flights.

Expect to see solar panels installed on the roofs of houses, on the south sides of buildings, and over large parcels of land that are otherwise unused (desert, landfills, old industrial sites with toxic soil).  Expect to see wind-powered generators pop up in farm fields and in coastal areas.

I actually don't think that hydrogen will be very big either, simply because it's easier and cheaper to generate the electricity and use it to directly charge up the vehicle in question, rather than going through the intermediate hydrogen-extraction process.  Research into battery technology is ongoing, and I don't think that hydrogen will have that much more energy density than an advanced battery, at least not enough to justify the added expense.

jeff-o wrote:

Expect to see solar panels installed on the roofs of houses, on the south sides of buildings, and over large parcels of land that are otherwise unused (desert, landfills, old industrial sites with toxic soil).  Expect to see wind-powered generators pop up in farm fields and in coastal areas.

One of the more interesting problems with solar panels is that if they were installed on the roofs of say, every home, to generate that home's electricity, we would drastically change the earth's albedo.

We use oil to make solar panels.

We have lots of oil. The tar sands in Canada have enough oil in them for a long, long time. It's just not economically viable to extract it yet. But it will be some day.

Regarding pure electric cars, there are three kinds of liars: Liars, damn liars, and battery engineers.

According to this, Shell has a feasible means of extracting oil from oil shale.

Me, I've been practicing "econo-driving": accelerating as slowly as you can get away with, and keeping the top speed down. It requires practicing patience. The downside is that it makes me feel old, as people in Civics and Corrollas (and even Geo Metros!) go around me.

I don't mind. I just wish they would slow down too, because if we all use less gas, the reduction in demand will bring down the price for everyone.

user wrote:

Slarty wrote:

We have lots of oil. The tar sands in Canada have enough oil in them for a long, long time. It's just not economically viable to extract it yet. But it will be some day.

That oil will also be really, really, fricking expensive. That's what becoming "economically viable" means.

jeff-o is right. We better start making those panels now.

Also remember, these are all the other metals that go into making solar panels.  Silicon, copper, gold, silver, etc.  Mining pretty much runs exclusively on oil as well.

We need to stop wasting oil on stupid cars, and save it for heavy equipment that (right now) cannot run on anything else.  Mining equipment, large ships, airplanes and stuff.

Oh!  And plastics!  Plastic is made from oil.  Almost any product you buy contains plastic.  What will we make everything out of, when the oil runs out?  Are we going to go back to the landfills and sift through 20-year-old garbage looking for old plastic to recycle?

Plastics can also be made from soybeans and hemp.

Lots of products contain petroleum, even your laundry detergent.  It's going to take a massive effort to wean ourselves from it.

Egress wrote:

According to this, Shell has a feasible means of extracting oil from oil shale.

Me, I've been practicing "econo-driving": accelerating as slowly as you can get away with, and keeping the top speed down. It requires practicing patience. The downside is that it makes me feel old, as people in Civics and Corrollas (and even Geo Metros!) go around me.

I don't mind. I just wish they would slow down too, because if we all use less gas, the reduction in demand will bring down the price for everyone.

Good for you.

Seriously, no sarcasm. That takes patience and perspective.