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Umm, if you read the link I provided, it says that Bush talks to him every week.

Here is another link for your amusement. Click Me

Colorado Springs is a interesting place these days. I'd had not heard of this Pastor Ted guy either until my Dad started talking about him.  Focus on the Family is another radical organization.  At least in my opinion.


BTW I live in Denver, so I guess I am in the demonized zone.

-mark

Last edited by avkills (2005-09-11 12:58 pm)

The whole thing seems very straightforward to me: it's about affluence.

The richer you are, the less interested you become in those less well-off. It's just what happens. I'm not saying that every rich person is a jerk, just that wealth acts as a buffer, as a wall, that prevents you from really understanding how "the other half" lives.

This problem has affected America's elite. The gap between haves and have-nots has expanded over time, to the point where the top percentage live in a different world. It's not unique to George W Bush by any means.

If anything's changed, I think it's that this class issue has become less-well disguised. But it's always been there, for sure.

In terms of the hurricane, it's pretty easy to understand that, to people who live their lives surrounded by wealth (and bodyguards and handlers), the notion poor refugees is a pretty abstract one.

They still recognize the needs of politics, so they pat one another on the back and make stirring speeches and whatnot, but people believe it a lot less than they once did.

And in terms of preventing the disaster ... I'm not convinced that the damage could've been prevented. It's an area the size of Great Britain, for crying out loud. Protecting an area that big from storms, assuming such a calamity could be accurately predicted, might have cost as much (if not more) than rebuilding it.

avkills wrote:

There is no sense in trying to protect against something that has that kind of power and force associated with it. I think you hit the nail on the head, Bush and the affluent rich just can't comprehend the notion of people that poor in our country, let alone the world.

I remember when my car was stolen, well the owner/president (at the time) of the company I work for told me everyone should own 2 cars. I was about 2 seconds away from smurfing pummeling the asshat. At that time (1993), I was making about $8/hour.  Of course my work week was usually 60-80 hours, but still...I could not believe it. Luckily, our current owner believes in actually having the work force earn a decent living and he does not pay himself an outrageous amount of salary. I'm on salary now and make a pretty good buck, but I still have 80 hour work weeks quite a bit. As we like to say, A/V never sleeps.

-mark

I know what you mean. We had a major problem with our transmission about a month ago, and it killed me when people said stuff like 'You should just get a different car'. Granted transmission repairs are expensive but it still is less than buying a new vehicle.

Farmerkev wrote:

dvpierce wrote:

That's why the government needs to pay attention, and listen to the legitimate concerns of environmentalists (Our wetlands are disappearing and we don't have as much flood protection as we did - maybe we should rebuild the wetlands.) vs. the concerns of the really nutty environmentalists. (Don't chop down that tree, it's the avatar of holy mother earth!)

You stumbled across an excellent example, wetlands.
You're thinking 'everglades' and marshes but wetlands are also the rainy year mudholes out in my fields and get regulated as such.

Marshes, whatever - wouldn't it make sense to fill in yours and rebuild theirs?

resedit wrote:

avkills wrote:

Umm, if you read the link I provided, it says that Bush talks to him every week.

Here is another link for your amusement. Click Me

Colorado Springs is a interesting place these days. I'd had not heard of this Pastor Ted guy either until my Dad started talking about him.  Focus on the Family is another radical organization.  At least in my opinion.


BTW I live in Denver, so I guess I am in the demonized zone. :lol:

-mark

Can you name why they are evil yourself?
The article was extremely biased and full of spin.

If you would like to discuss what they have done that makes them hateful, maybe you are right - lets do it.

res,
They are part of the whole prayer warrior movement and you ought to know what that is.

Pariah wrote:

res,
They are part of the whole prayer warrior movement and you ought to know what that is.

What is hateful about them?

Again, what is hateful about them?
Anything specific? I haven't gotten anything hateful about them.

This is the group that the "Purpose Driven Life" guy is involved with (Warnke, I think) - right?
I've heard him speak, read part of the book - I didn't see or hear any hate.

What is hateful about them?

dvpierce wrote:

Well, generally people who connect "prayer" and "war" in the same thought are... how do I put this gently...

smurfing insane. Yeah, that's it.

There are no atheists in foxholes

resedit wrote:

Again, what is hateful about them?
Anything specific? I haven't gotten anything hateful about them.

This is the group that the "Purpose Driven Life" guy is involved with (Warnke, I think) - right?
I've heard him speak, read part of the book - I didn't see or hear any hate.

What is hateful about them?

Its been about seven years so I mostly just remember general things but I worked at a print shop that did ALOT and I mean one heck of alot, of the printing for a few of the area mega churchs all of which had prayer warrior brigades (yes that is what they called them).
These weren’t small fringy churches, they were some of the largest and most influential in town.
Local note: People familiar with Rockford, IL just need look to to either side of Spring Creek and Mulford to know what 2 of the churches are I mean.
Their handouts and educational materials were quite scary really.
They went on and on as all those sorts of outfits do but the relevant political slant they took was that no one but good, true, born again Christians ought to be considered real Americans, very literally suggesting a religious litmus test for citizenship.
People like me wouldn’t be out and out killed or anything but we couldn’t vote, teach, hold government jobs, serve on juries, adopt kids and that sort of thing.
Sort of like being a visiting worker in the country of my birth.
Naturally gays fared worse.
Some of the stuff I printed related to the Women’s clinic bombings and Doctor murders that had occurred and were a hot topic at the time. Naturally they included a very soft condemnation of the bombings, immediately followed up with a wordy rational that basically boiled down to "That's the sort of thing that happens when immorality pushes people of faith over the edge"
And just alot more stuff like that. No actual advocating of violence but lots of the ole "wink, wink, nudge, nudge".

Last edited by Pariah (2005-09-11 10:34 pm)

jax wrote:

MrJ in OZ wrote:

JackSkellington wrote:

snippity,
And speaking of cake, Bush's mother should keep her mouth shut. But her comments I think show how these people view the little people of the world. They simply can't concieve that people are so poor as to not have a car to drive away to saftey. Or that their whole world might be a small shack and nothing else.

What did Bush's mother say?

You didn't know about that?
http://www.macaddict.com/forums/topic/69149

Didnt read that one and unfourtunatly the media here (Australia) is either dodgy or uninfomative. so I choose my material carefully.  Washinington Post and Leher but since ive been so busy lately Ive missed much.

Last edited by MrJ in OZ (2005-09-11 10:59 pm)

Hey res,

Their thinking goes right in line with basically how they thought in medieval times. Very similar.

The purpose driven life guy is another one, I am not so sure he is with these guys, he has his own Christian Cult following. I am pretty sure I've heard this Rick Warren guy speak somewhere. Must not have been very motivational if I can't remember.

All these new age (loose term) Christian Cults are pretty scary.  Focus on the Family, New Life Church and Purpose Driven Life are all scary entities as far as I am concerned. Really no different than a militant group, aka Waco and Ruby Ridge. They may have Christian beliefs, but they do really want to rid the world of people who do not think and believe as they do. Modern day Crusaders.

-mark

resedit wrote:

There still is an unsubstantiated claim - that Bush listens to a guy every week who is a hateful person. Can anyone demonstrate his hatefulness?

As far as only Christians being true Americans, that is Looney - if Bush is listening to a guy who teaches that, I want it documented.

I suspect this is a case of FUD from the anti-Christian sects.
The link given that started this did not document his claims, which makes it suspect.

Are you honestly as naive as you act here on religious matters or are you being deliberatly obtuse? Do you only hang out with Methodists and Unitarians?

For as much as you seem to know about the bible you seem woefully uninformed about how extreme alot a fairly mainstream conservative Christian sects have become.
You need to learn more about the diversity of Christian sects.

resedit wrote:

Oh - there are whacko's, there always have been and there always will be.
I want it demonstrated that Bush listens to a hateful whacko.

Please, someone demonstrate his hate. Otherwise, it's FUD.

What, linking to one biased site without providing any specific evidence isn't good enough for Res?



Could have fooled me.