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#1 2005-09-23 11:35 am
Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I got a package in the mail the other day, 6 sets of Ubuntu install and live CDs. Two for PPC, two for AMD64, and two for x86.
I really, really like it. I've never been a big fan of Linux (Fedora C3 is nice, Gentoo is interesting, Mandrake .. is Linux too ...) but I think Ubuntu changes some of that. If nothing else, it goes to prove that with open-source and well-documented software, you can make Linux what you want it to be. I think I finally 'get' Linux. 
As far as functionality, it's still Linux. Certain packages demand certain dependencies, the commands are all the same, the command line is readily available for anything that doesn't have a nice GUI to it. The default desktop UI is Gnome, although there is a project to get KDE as fully supported as Gnome (I like Gnome myself, and that's what I used in FC2 and 3).
The CDs themselves were free (as in speech and beer) - but I was surprised when the package had six sets of what looks like a commercial release. Very nice packaging, full-print discs, different color designs for each architecture (orange for PPC, yellow for AMD64, red for x86) and very well documented and stuff. I have already lent out both x86 sets to two die-hard Windows fans - and schooled one on the basic principle of Linux last night, at my house - we'll see how that goes. It's not that I want everyone to use Linux, or Mac OS, or whatever - I just want people to know that there is an alternative. There really, really is.
On top of that, I'm guinea pigging my mom - her Windows installation crashed, and I installed only Ubuntu for her. And, what do you know? It's perfect. Firefox for teh interwebs (and Flash games), some mail client for mail, OO.o for all those Office things. Plugging in a digital camera (a sony something-something, pretty new, 7.2MP) auto-mounts it on the desktop and asks if you want to import the photos. Very iPhoto-like. Plugging in an iPod auto-mounts that as well, although I haven't tried to play music off it. (I can just picture Ubuntu scoffing at me because the music isn't in .ogg format.
)
I'm probably going to install it on my AMD64 machine's second drive and see how using it day-in day-out for simple stuff works out for me. Maybe it'll replace my Windows installation as well, although some stuff will require me to still have it installed (some games, some apps, little PSP utilities, etc.), I imagine.
All in all, Ubuntu seems to live up to its name - Linux for human beings - I didn't have to do anything dorky or nerdy to get it running, although for some that's half the fun. I did have to activate the ethernet interface, manually, which I found odd. Although, in hindsight, I would see why a secure system would come with networking ports disabled by default. Other than that, Ubuntu found all the neccesary drivers without a hitch - mouse, keyboard, video, eth0, wifi, iPod, sony camera, sound chipset, everything - something that I couldn't even do in Fedora Core 3. (different hardware, to be fair, though.)
So, that's my first look at Ubuntu Linux. Anyone else have any experience with it?
-Tim
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#2 2005-09-23 11:43 am
- Zetetic Apparatchik
- Member

- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 8250
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
It's not as pleasant as Mac OS X or as cripplingly-fun as Gentoo. 
Join the MAF AudioScrobbler group.
Protest ist, wenn ich sage, das und das paßt mir nicht. Widerstand ist, wenn ich dafür sorge, daß das, was mir nicht paßt, nicht länger geschieht.
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#3 2005-09-23 11:44 am
- kex215
- Member

- Registered: 2005-07-06
- Posts: 213
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I too have tried and liked it. I have it installed on my B&W G3 on a second partition, and on an AMD 64 machine as well. I downloaded it, but also ordered some CDs and was impressed with them as well. I am using Kubuntu (kde version), and I enjoy it. Very well put together, well organized, and very easy to teach-with that nice packaging you mentioned, that helps. Some people just don't understand that the best software doesn't come in a pretty box sometimes...it makes them look like what they are, legit.
edit: distrowatch's tracking of hits per day for the last 6 months (average): distrowatch
Rank Distribution H.P.D*
1 Ubuntu 2755>
2 Mandriva 1692<
3 SUSE 1329<
4 Fedora 1282>
5 MEPIS 1125>
6 KNOPPIX 909=
7 Debian 875=
8 Damn Small 682=
9 Gentoo 634=
10 Slackware 598< *My favorite for older hardware and laptops has to be slackware.
11 Kubuntu 474>
12 FreeBSD 450=
13 SLAX 411<
14 Xandros 391>
15 PCLinuxOS 385=
16 Vector 362=
17 PC-BSD 362<
18 CentOS 344>
19 Libranet 332<
20 KANOTIX 31
They have been steadily climbing the ranks as a usable, clean, and well designed system. I loaned a set of the ppc cds to a friend, who has a G5 and an old imac G3, and he has enjoyed them. A good way to get others into linux, just to show them that there are alternatives, especially for people who have older hardware, and just need the basics (web, school work, etc), you can get all of it for free. Way to go ubuntu team!
Last edited by kex215 (2005-09-23 4:19 pm)
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#4 2005-09-23 12:04 pm
- smeghead
- Intel Core Duo inside

- From: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha
- Registered: 2004-07-24
- Posts: 587
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
Ubuntu blew me away when I booted up from a live CD... everything worked instantly it found the drivers even for my Airport card.
"Will you marry me, Le Chan?" "You bet I will!"
iMac Core Duo, 1.83 GHz AKA Pegasus
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#5 2005-09-23 4:08 pm
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..

- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18426
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
Ubuntu installed flawlessly on my old G4/400. Either than trivial apperierance quibbles it couldent have been easier.
All 3 of my attached CD/DVD drives were recognised and worked fine. My 3rd party USB card was recognised, as was my 3rd party wireless card. Basically everything worked.
Firefox works even better under Ubuntu than under OSX and I found the way Ubuntu rendered type on web pages to be far clearer and easier to read than with OSX.
Surfing is a pleasure with Ubuntu and I found the Gnome desktop to be pretty nice all in all.
Other than that I found no real joy in Ubuntu. I spent the better part of an afternoon messing around with every graphics app I could find and dident find any that were anything near what I would discribe as being usefull. Since digital photography is my main thing thats my personal litmus test for the usefullness of a plateform.
I found the documentation to be pretty lacking: One would think with a Linux distro there would be some instructions on how to compile an app from source but I dident even find a mention of doing that in the built in help files.
Gnome seemed pretty polished so I guess my critisism of Ubuntu is no different than my general impression of open source applications. With the exception of some really nice projects like OO.o, Firefox and Nvu most OSS apps are pretty sucktacular. Reminding me of the sort of freeware one would find availible on Windows 95 just after it came out.
So I guess my conclusion is that Ubuntu is indeed very, very nice as an OS but lacks good applications.
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#6 2005-09-23 4:31 pm
- kex215
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- Registered: 2005-07-06
- Posts: 213
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
What sort of graphics apps where you looking for? Editors, converters, previewers, etc.?
What are you looking to replace?
I find it hard (but not quite impossible) to believe you couldn't find any apps you liked. As far as documentation goes, there is a ton of documentation available online, and since gnome and ubuntu have built in package managers, they don't expect most of the users to compile from source too often, or if they want to do that instead of using the gui apps, they assume that you know how to do so. A simple google search, any learning linux book, or visiting any ubuntu/gnome/linux forum could have taught you how to compile from source in minutes, if you so desired.
I still use non-free (as in speech and beer) apps, but I have found that there is a plethora of apps to play around with in the open source community that are usful and well designed, and if you find one you have an issue or problem with, you can contact the dev team, and let them know, fix it yourself, or post to a forum and find out from others how to fix the bug, how to change the app, or what other app has the solution you are looking for.
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#7 2005-09-23 5:22 pm
- MysticCow
- Junior Assistant Poobah (Probationary)
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- Registered: 2002-07-29
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Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I tried installing it in Virtual PC and it sent my Mac into a kernel panic. First Windows 98 crashed my Mac and now Linux crashed my Mac.
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#8 2005-09-23 6:37 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
kex215 wrote:
What sort of graphics apps where you looking for? Editors, converters, previewers, etc.?
What are you looking to replace?
I find it hard (but not quite impossible) to believe you couldn't find any apps you liked.
He needs capabilities beyond what the gimp can currently do.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#9 2005-09-23 6:41 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
It probably crashed trying to probe your hardware, since it's emulated.
Just boot off the CD - still non-destrutive, and fully functional.
-Tim
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#10 2005-09-23 7:02 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
MysticCow wrote:
I tried installing it in Virtual PC and it sent my Mac into a kernel panic. First Windows 98 crashed my Mac and now Linux crashed my Mac.
I tried installing it in VPC and wound up with some weird-ass screen configuration that I couldn't get out of. I mean bad. I mean about ten times wider than it was tall, and nothing was legible. The colors were all wacked out too.
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#11 2005-09-23 7:17 pm
- cannedbrain
- default member

- Registered: 2001-09-04
- Posts: 22
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I tried it on my iMac, it did an excellent job configuring itself. I couldn't stand it though.
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#12 2005-09-23 7:30 pm
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..

- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18426
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
kex215 wrote:
What sort of graphics apps where you looking for? Editors, converters, previewers, etc.?
What are you looking to replace?
I find it hard (but not quite impossible) to believe you couldn't find any apps you liked. As far as documentation goes, there is a ton of documentation available online, and since gnome and ubuntu have built in package managers, they don't expect most of the users to compile from source too often, or if they want to do that instead of using the gui apps, they assume that you know how to do so. A simple google search, any learning linux book, or visiting any ubuntu/gnome/linux forum could have taught you how to compile from source in minutes, if you so desired.
I still use non-free (as in speech and beer) apps, but I have found that there is a plethora of apps to play around with in the open source community that are usful and well designed, and if you find one you have an issue or problem with, you can contact the dev team, and let them know, fix it yourself, or post to a forum and find out from others how to fix the bug, how to change the app, or what other app has the solution you are looking for.
The Mac app that is would like to find a reasonible equivalent to is GraphicConverter to use as a viewer/quick editor/manager/batch processor.
I couldent tell you right off hand what Linux apps I tried but it was all 7 or 8 I could find in the built in package handler at repositories.
I am well aware that I am your typical picky, pissy Mac user with high expectations of how apps should work.
Simply put most of the graphics apps I found under Linux, several of which were recommended to me as the best ones availible just dont work very well. Or I should say dont work in the way I am accostomed to apps working after many years of experience using graphics apps under both Windows and the MacOS. They all seem complicated for the sake of complication. The Gimp being a very glareing example of that.
I understand I could have gone online to learn the ins and outs of compiling. My point is I dont think one should have to seeing as how compiling seems to be a pretty common task under Linux. Strikes me it should be covered in the onboard documentation, just my opinion.
Ubuntu as an OS is very slick........ the apps? Thats a whole nuther story.
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#13 2005-09-23 11:08 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
That's probably the backbreaker for Linux right now...there are a lot of apps, but they are difficult to install or lack conventional interfaces. Many of these apps are powerful, but they feel like cheap freeware.
I have Ubuntu installed on a frankenpc, and I really like the OS. So far, however, I have not figured out how to permanently mount Windows volumes on the desktop, could not get my Sony laptop to work with it on the network, and have yet to find a video player (or the codecs) that will allow me to play DIVX or WMA files. These things kind of frustrate me. I am also looking for a good comic reader app as well. That said, I do like it, and will continue to play with it. Linux seems to have come a long way in the last few years, but a noob like myself still has a lot to learn before I can really enjoy it to its full potential.
...therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision. Daniel 9:23c
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#14 2005-09-24 2:48 am
- Zetetic Apparatchik
- Member

- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 8250
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
oatmeal wrote:
MysticCow wrote:
I tried installing it in Virtual PC and it sent my Mac into a kernel panic. First Windows 98 crashed my Mac and now Linux crashed my Mac.
I tried installing it in VPC and wound up with some weird-ass screen configuration that I couldn't get out of. I mean bad. I mean about ten times wider than it was tall, and nothing was legible. The colors were all wacked out too.
1. Neither Windows 98 or Linux crashed MysticCow's Mac. VPC did.
2. Why not try a PPC Live CD?
Join the MAF AudioScrobbler group.
Protest ist, wenn ich sage, das und das paßt mir nicht. Widerstand ist, wenn ich dafür sorge, daß das, was mir nicht paßt, nicht länger geschieht.
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#15 2005-09-24 10:20 am
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
volk wrote:
That's probably the backbreaker for Linux right now...there are a lot of apps, but they are difficult to install or lack conventional interfaces. Many of these apps are powerful, but they feel like cheap freeware.
They are not difficult to install if they have been packaged in your distributions repository.
If an app isn't packaged in your distributions repository, it usually either
a) has a licensing problem
b) has a patent problem
c) Is a fairly new project
d) Has some serious flaws
-=-
Rarely do I venture away from what is packaged for my choice distro.
Some recent exceptions:
1) tex4ht
That program is young, it does not come with a configure script or makefile, but it is extremely
useful for turning LaTeX into html/xml. It is packaged for some distributions.
2) xgalaga
requires several patches to build in Fedora. It's a fun game.
I have Ubuntu installed on a frankenpc, and I really like the OS. So far, however, I have not figured out how to permanently mount Windows volumes on the desktop,
Have you asked on a ubuntu user list?
and have yet to find a video player (or the codecs) that will allow me to play DIVX or WMA files.
Install the gstreamer-ffmpeg package.
On a mac, it kind of sucks - but on a PC, gstreamer-ffmpeg handles divx extremely well.
WMA could use some help. Sometimes they play decently, sometimes they don't. I think it depends upon what version of wma they were encoded to.
These things kind of frustrate me. I am also looking for a good comic reader app as well.
What's a comic reader?
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#16 2005-09-24 10:50 am
- MuckSavage
- The Balls

- From: In a glass case of emotion.
- Registered: 2001-10-02
- Posts: 3402
- Website
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I think my favorite distro right now is the Fedora Core series, but I have an old frankenpc that fc4 runs like crap on. (700hmz celeron) FC 4 really needs a recent pc.
I've tried Ubuntu, and it is by far the most user friendly distro I've ever used. Linux still has a way to go to become a mainstream desktop OS, but it's constantly getting better. Ubuntu also runs pretty well on that old hunk of smurf pc I have.
You have an absolutely breath-taking... heiney. I mean, that thing's good. I wanna be friends with it.
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#17 2005-09-24 11:32 am
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..

- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18426
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
MuckSavage wrote:
I think my favorite distro right now is the Fedora Core series, but I have an old frankenpc that fc4 runs like crap on. (700hmz celeron) FC 4 really needs a recent pc.
I've tried Ubuntu, and it is by far the most user friendly distro I've ever used. Linux still has a way to go to become a mainstream desktop OS, but it's constantly getting better. Ubuntu also runs pretty well on that old hunk of smurf pc I have.
One thing I have to say is Ubuntu ran really well on my old G4/400, but I have a pretty decent video card and over a gig of ram so I am sure that helped alot.
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#18 2005-09-24 4:10 pm
- Egress
- Connoisseur of Eyebrows

- From: Rockville, Maryland, USA
- Registered: 2000-02-05
- Posts: 5049
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
I have a ThinkPad 570 with a P2/300. Knoppix installed to the hard drive runs pretty well.
My other StinkPad has Win2k on it. It's gruesome, but gives me free wireless.
Hey!!! Was that Pithy? Got a twenty?
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#19 2005-09-24 4:27 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
MuckSavage wrote:
I think my favorite distro right now is the Fedora Core series, but I have an old frankenpc that fc4 runs like crap on. (700hmz celeron) FC 4 really needs a recent pc.
It (fc4) runs OK on my Thinkpad T20 - which is 700MHz Pentium III (Coppermine) w/ 256 MB of ram.
Some python apps bring it to its knees, and too many firefox tabs open at once do the same - especially with flash/java in the various tabs.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#20 2005-09-24 4:34 pm
- MuckSavage
- The Balls

- From: In a glass case of emotion.
- Registered: 2001-10-02
- Posts: 3402
- Website
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
It's also hard to judge speed when it is sitting next to my 2ghz G5 iMac. Man that thing screams.
You have an absolutely breath-taking... heiney. I mean, that thing's good. I wanna be friends with it.
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#21 2005-09-24 4:37 pm
- Zetetic Apparatchik
- Member

- Registered: 2001-01-07
- Posts: 8250
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
Transcode from DVD video to H264. That'll teach the bastard.
Join the MAF AudioScrobbler group.
Protest ist, wenn ich sage, das und das paßt mir nicht. Widerstand ist, wenn ich dafür sorge, daß das, was mir nicht paßt, nicht länger geschieht.
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#22 2005-09-24 9:25 pm
- jrork777
- Jamoke

- From: Chicagoland
- Registered: 2005-02-08
- Posts: 248
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
Wow, it looks/runs really great, but I installed it on my PB (1.67 15") and doesn't seem to like my trackpad OR my AirPort card OR my Ethernet port...
Am I doing something wrong? I can live without the trackpad (stupid software wants more than ONE button anyhow) but internet sure would be nice!
This is the story on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
Death to the squirrel! Get RoundCube Webmail.
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#23 2005-09-24 9:26 pm
- jrork777
- Jamoke

- From: Chicagoland
- Registered: 2005-02-08
- Posts: 248
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
P.S.
This was on live CD's only...
Death to the squirrel! Get RoundCube Webmail.
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#24 2005-09-24 10:02 pm
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
jrork777 wrote:
Wow, it looks/runs really great, but I installed it on my PB (1.67 15") and doesn't seem to like my trackpad OR my AirPort card OR my Ethernet port...
Am I doing something wrong? I can live without the trackpad (stupid software wants more than ONE button anyhow) but internet sure would be nice!
This is the story on both Ubuntu and Kubuntu.
I don't know about trackpad and ethernet, but if your airport is high speed airport (802.11g) it won't work. The broadcom drivers are not open, broadcom only works on x86 linux through ndiswrapper.
Early airport (802.11b) used a chipset for which an open source driver exists.
In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor
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#25 2005-09-25 12:15 am
- jrork777
- Jamoke

- From: Chicagoland
- Registered: 2005-02-08
- Posts: 248
Re: Ubuntu - Linux for human beings
Thanks for the imput, won't burn anymore time on that...
I don't wanna take over this thread, but one more thing is the fact that you have to use a drop-down for subnets--my workplace uses a custom subnet! Why didn't they make it just a text field?!
I'm gonna install it on my P3 ThinkPad tomorrow and see what happens.
Death to the squirrel! Get RoundCube Webmail.
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