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With a 90 pound dog, that's basically like having three kids. So yeah, I guess a station wagon or SUvan would be a necessity.

The Torrent is FWD unless the front wheels slip. Then the rear wheels kick in for traction. So really it's FWD 99% of the time anyhow.

As much as anything else, I sem to recall the mileage penalty being because of the weight of the 4WD transmission. (as well as the inefficiency in distribution.)

My current car is 1300kg. I used to drive a Volvo that was about 300kg more - (3500 pounds, or about as heavy as most compact SUVs. A Toyota Tundra, for comparison, is about 4800. Subaru Outback = 3350.) it slid around just as much as the smaller car.

Once, stopped in a gas station driveway, with 6" of snow on the ground, and my front wheels turned all the way to the right, the volvo just started sliding down the driveway and out into the street. I don't think 4WD would have made a difference there. Ice can be tricky, especially in intersections, but I really don't think 4WD is usually that big a deal - I see too many of them slide off the road.

Now snow tires, that should help a lot.

Edit: I shouldn't be so negative! If 4WD maks you feel safer, than by all means, get one. But I really think the feeling of safety is as much psychological as technical.

I am telling you man, Tribeca is rolling sex.

nannyandnutro wrote:

Did you consider perhaps getting something a couple of years old, certified used? A 4Runner would do nicely, or a Highlander? If the Envoy and its myriad problems are any indication, the Torrent will be more of the same heartache.  I just hate the Tonka-truck like interior in GM cars.  That said, I still disagree that even with two kids and a dog and luggage and grandma and a G4 tower and -you get the idea- an SUV is necessary.  How on earth did we transport our families before their inception?

Oh yeah, the 4 door sedan.  I'll be.  Or what about a minivan???  Better gas mileage.  Some out there have awesome safety ratings.  Plus the doors on both sides makes so much difference when loading kiddos in.  Or dead hookers.  Nobody suspects a guy in a minivan. 

You have options.  Explore them!

I thought about getting a used vehicle. I got the one I have now used and it's been great. Minivans are out though. Not one out there scores better than a 3 star for rear collisions and I'm cutting down on dead hookers this year. Besides, the coolness factor is NIL!

As far as 'how we used to get around', big BIG cars. Cars of yesterday were twice the size they are now. And many families had either trucks or station wagons. Remember the rear facing seats? Now THOSE were death traps.

Edit:
BTW, why would I want a Highlander or 4Runner, which are way more expensive on gas than the Torrent?

Last edited by peepl_r_dum (2005-10-01 7:58 pm)

nannyandnutro wrote:

All three (Torrent, Highlander, and 4Runner) average out at between 18-20 or 21 MPG.  Is there a different way of measuring it in Canada?  I'm not being a smartass, just curious.  They're getting ready to phase out Pontiac as a brand if these new cars don't pan out.  Not sure if I'd like that.

I still disagree about car size, but to each his own.

Good question. We measure Liters per 100 kilometers (at least on the websites I've been using). So the Torrent gets 13.1L/100km. The 4Runner gets 13.7L/100km. Not a big difference but going in the wrong direction. I didn't hear a thing about Pontiac brand going under. I know that the workers here in Canada almost went on strike but that was GM wide. In Alberta GM does really well and Pontiac is getting a huge push. You can't go 30 seconds without seeing a Pontiac on the streets. Besides, they just introduced 3 new vehicles this year and they are all getting rave reviews from the car critics. I've never liked Toyota, mainly because of their attitude. It's the whole "we have a great car so we don't have to extend ourselves in ANY way" attitude. Their sales staff is rude, their service is poor and I hate any company that make you pay extra for basics such as air conditioning and keyless remote. In this day and age, those things should be included.

You're right. Toyota sells more and I doubt Canada's entire GM sales would be a drop in the bucket compared to the U.S. market, but it is a good vehicle and the only other vehicles I will entertain, will be ones with better gas mileage. I've owned a Pontiac for 3 years and have had no issues with it and would keep it if it weren't for the safety rating and lack of space. I've also owned 3 Hondas (so you know I'm not against Asian vehicles) and have found 2 out of three to be pieces of junk. Years ago, after owning 3 Hondas and looking to purchase a brand new one on lease, I got 'hassles' from Honda Canada. I was asked to put a minimum of $5000 down, despite my good credit rating and the fact that I purchased all three Hondas directly from this dealership. I said I was unwilling to do so and they let me walk. I walked across the street to the Chrysler dealership and bought a new Neon for $0 down and 0 payments for one month. The car was almost the same price as the Honda (with many more accessories) so that was my proof that Honda was trying to squeeze cash out of me because their attitude was they didn't need my business. And so they no longer have it. I will never buy a Honda again. In my eyes, Subaru and Toyota fall very close to that attitude. Just on Friday I was at the Subaru dealership and there were no customers in. I was the only one there, with two sales persons walking around. I was clean shaven, dressed appropriately and looked at several vehicles. I even sat in one and open every orifice it had. After being there for 15 minutes and not even getting looked at, I went outside and looked at their inventory. I was out there for 10 minutes and then turned to the guy washing the cars and said "if your dumbass sales staff would have bothered to even say hello. they would have sold a car today". I got in my car and left. I called the sales manager later that day and gave him an earful.

Just buy Jay-Z's Maybach when his next album tanks and he needs the money. Besides If I can survive in Northern Minnesota with mustang with snow tires, anybody can. If the snow ever gets too deep where I can get out, then I didn't need too leave the house to begin with. That only happened pre-snow tires.

Solstice.

How often do you take the dog places? A family of 4 should be well suited in a mid size sedan.

Mazda 6 Wagon?

Last edited by sevoneone (2005-10-02 2:53 am)

Okay, get a 300 C Hemi.

peepl_r_dum wrote:

Frankly, I've found that Asian made vehicles are overrated and North American cars are underrated. I've owned both and have had good and bad experiences with both.

:applause:

Here are a few factors to consider. In Alberta, we have more trucks and SUV's per capita than anywhere else in Canada. Almost half the vehicles on the road are trucks or SUV's so that is my competition in an accident, as well as for visibility. Also consider that I am in oil and gas country so we have relatively lower gas prices and get rebates often. Also, as mentioned twice before but missed by several posters, we get little snow but very icy streets. When you say you've made it through a winter with a RWD vehicle and winter tires without problem, it means nothing until you've driven these streets. I've made it through Quebec and Ontario winters (which will rival ANYTHING you see in the U.S.) with a RWD vehicle. Snow is never an issue. Ice is. I always put on Blizzak tires, front and rear. I am a safe driver, never having had a speeding ticket nor causing an accident.

FWD?

Technically, the problem is probably with your local dealership and management there, not the whole company. That's a problem with franchising.

Don't get an SUV, wait for the 4 door smart car to come to North America

Contrary to what some posters on internet forums say, there are no 'crappy' cars made anymore. Not even Kia makes a 'crappy' car. Gone are the days of the Yugo. Customers won't put up with it.

Another vehicle to add to your list, peepl_r_dum, is the all new 2006 Suzuki Grand Vitara. I haven't checked but it could possibly be a relative to the Torrent.

If I had the money right now my garage would be perfectly happy with a Solstice and a Torrent parked in it! The Solstice would see most of the driving duties though.

peepl_r_dum wrote:

Frankly, I've found that Asian made vehicles are overrated and North American cars are underrated. I've owned both and have had good and bad experiences with both.
[snip]

Honda in Marysville, Ohio.

Ford in Hermosillo, Mexico (by "North American" I'm guessing you are referring to only Canada and the USA).

Of course with the various interlocking ownerships between the various companies and cross-development deals (Ford with Mazda [which has 25% of its stock owned by Ford, I think], GM with Toyota, Daimler-Chrysler with Mitsubishi), distinctions between American brands vs. non-American brand have become more or less arbitrary and meaningless.