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Its not on the verge of a civil war, the violence is already declining and curfews will only increase this trend. I doubt it will continue for more than another week, declining all the way.

Heh ... no, it's not that bad. Calling it an "insurgency" is a massive stretch. In fact, from what I've seen (and mind you I don't have TV, so I haven't seen the garish images), it doesn't even seem to be as bad as the American race riots of the 60s.

Really, that's what they were: race riots. It hink the French were caught flat-footed because they had grown complacent about their immigrant population's passivity.

It'll calm down, the country will clean up, and maybe, just maybe, there will finally be a national discussion about the issue of race. Hopefully it won't see a mass movement to the racism of guys like La Pen.

bedstuy wrote:

Personally though (and it's awful to say) what France needs is EXACTLY a 1968 event to change how racist their society has become.

Well said. I agree 100%.

bedstuy wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Personally though (and it's awful to say) what France needs is EXACTLY a 1968 event to change how racist their society has become.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Pains me to say it as I love France actually.

I know what you mean. I love America, and damn if it doesn't keep refusing to fulfil its pomise.

Jaligard wrote:

MysticCow wrote:

A prominent anti-France talking head is using words like "insurrection" and "the native French do not accept them and the police treat them unfairly" and called Chirac "a weak leader" in the face of this insurgency.  In a way it sounds like the media condemning Bush (and somewhat rightly) on Iraq.

Wow, it sounds like they're being "Fair and Balanced," indeed. How long did it take for them to call the resistance in Iraq an insurgency?

It's a bloody outrage! They're ignoring all the good things that are being done there!

This will be open again when I finish editing...

Strike two, More or Less. Don't let there be a strike three.  We haven't had anyone in the Free Speech Zone in a while... and I call that a good thing.  Let's not break our dry spell, eh?

(If you need to reply, do it with a PM, not in here)

bedstuy wrote:

ShnickyShnack wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Personally though (and it's awful to say) what France needs is EXACTLY a 1968 event to change how racist their society has become.

Well said. I agree 100%.

Pains me to say it as I love France actually.

can one of you two expand upon your brilliant thesis of the helpful nature of race riots or violent mass action?

Last edited by more or less (2005-11-10 2:22 am)

Wake-up call.

bedstuy wrote:

more or less wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Pains me to say it as I love France actually.

can one of you two expand upon your brilliant thesis of the helpful nature of race riots or violent mass action?

You're mistake is trying to look at everything through an American prism (MLK and Rosa Parks... ).  Street action has a long and proud history in France.  Try thinking harder next time.

In fairness, being abysmally ignorant of the subject he has no choice.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

more or less wrote:

can one of you two expand upon your brilliant thesis of the helpful nature of race riots or violent mass action?

You're mistake is trying to look at everything through an American prism (MLK and Rosa Parks... ).  Street action has a long and proud history in France.  Try thinking harder next time.

In fairness, being abysmally ignorant of the subject he has no choice.

This timely WaPo article backs me up

Friedrich Heckmann, a professor of immigration studies at the University of Bamberg in Germany, said studies show that it is more difficult for second-generation French to move out of the slums or segregated neighborhoods and find jobs than for people of the same age and background in Britain and Germany.

France also has a long tradition of political protests turning violent; the young people are following in the footsteps of farmers, union members and others who are quick to take to the streets, he said.

"In France, they immediately block the roads and fight with police -- that's what people do," Heckmann said. "In that sense, there is some rationality when these young guys set cars on fire. They get attention, which is what they want."

Here is the answer to the riots in France (thugs to control thugs):
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1606734.html

The riots in France are also economic.  France has about a 10% unemployment rate if I remember this right.  If I also remember this right, France's immigrant population has an unemployment rate of about 20%

Anyway here is another talking head on the French riots.

No one should have been shocked. There are people who will not stop until they get stopped -- and much of the media, the political classes, and the cultural elites of the West cannot bring themselves to even criticize, much less stop, the dangers or degeneracy among groups viewed sympathetically as underdogs.

Not all Moslems, nor necessarily a majority of Moslems, are either a cultural or a physical danger. But even "moderate" Moslem organizations in the West who deplore violence and try to discourage it nevertheless encourage their followers to remain foreigners rather than become part of the countries they live in.