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I know my post is biased because I'm gay.

But....the last marriage I was witness to was a gay marriage. Actually, it was a GROUP marriage. AND MORE actually, it was my ex-girlfriend getting married.

I guess I should clarify - In the city of Barrie in early 2004 there was some radio contest where people won and got to either get married for free or get the wedding vows renewed at a nightclub. Sounds cheesy, I know, but my ex happened to win this and invited punkgeek and I to the proceedings on Valentine's Day.

And although it isn't the way I would want to get hitched....I thought it was sweet. So many people declaring their love....some for their first time and some after 20+ years of marriage.

And to think that they included one gay couple in this ceremony in a conservative town such as Barrie makes me feel like there's hope for the rest of the country.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

It marked a change in me. Previously, I understood the opposition to same-sex marriage on a gut level, even if I disagreed with that opposition. Now, however, opposition makes no sense to me, none whatsoever. It just seems like nasty, archaic backwardness that ignores real human feelings.

That's all, really ... not sure if there's much of a thread in this; just thought I'd share.

I'm straight, but my gut tells me that this is wrong wrong wrong -- not just the marriage prohibition, but all laws and policies that discriminate.

I think one of the turning points for civil rights in the 60s was when a lot of white people began to see that discrimination against blacks was unjustifiable. I hope we reach that point with gays soon. There's no excuse for it.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

And by the way my gay brother sneers at the whole issue. He can't understand why any of his bretheren should want to participate in archaic, hetero rituals.

I'd probably get along with him then.

jondaris wrote:

I think one of the turning points for civil rights in the 60s was when a lot of white people began to see that discrimination against blacks was unjustifiable. I hope we reach that point with gays soon. There's no excuse for it.

I hope so, but I doubt it'll happen soon in the US.

Most people just believe what the TV tells them. There are so many sheep who honestly believe gays are fighting for "special privileges" and that gay marriage will cause a slippery slope that will destroy society, because it's just repeated over and over again until people accept it.

You'd expect that sort of thinking just from the crazy religious types but not really. A fringe minority dominates the channels of communication, and the public just blindly accepts what they say.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

And by the way my gay brother sneers at the whole issue. He can't understand why any of his bretheren should want to participate in archaic, hetero rituals.

Not everyone appreciates the benefits of long-term relationships, whether they're heterosexual or homosexual. Pair bonding is not an archaic heterosexual ritual. It's a basic part of humanity that is separate from sexual orientation.

The conflict all men face is that we're designed, via evolution, to want to impregnate as many women as possible. Even gay men have the desire to procreate. I do, for instance. If I could, I'd probably donate sperm to as many women as possible. I recognize that this desire is genetic in origin. I don't, however, have any sexual attraction to women, and that is genetic in origin as well. The desire to "spread one's seed" makes it difficult for men to maintain monogamous pair bonds, especially when the men have a strong sex drive.

Homosexual male relationships often become somewhat open as time goes on when it comes to sexual activity because it's very difficult for males to maintain monogamy, especially when they're in a relationship together because there is no female pressure. Since women are genetically inclined to demand monogamy, exchanging sex for male protection/care (in order to keep their few and high-maintainance offspring fed and safe), heterosexual relationships feature many protections like marriage. Marriage creates a social prison of sorts designed to support a pair bond. That's why the wedding band is the same as the Roman slave band. It's worn in the same place, and looks the same with the exception of the change in color from silver to gold.

One might read what I've written and say "you just proved that homosexual men shouldn't get married" but that's not the case. A pair bond provides benefits that outweigh the pleasures of multiple sex partners with no attachment. It's up to each person, male or female, to decide whether or not to have a long-term pair bond. As a gay man, I am an example of a homosexual who is able to survive a strong sex drive and subsequent desire for as many partners as possible (provided they're attractive) and maintain a long-term relationship. I've found that casual sex isn't fun most of the time, because there's no emotional connection. The thing is, though... most people do "cheat". Even pious religious people I know cheated. It's hard even for some heterosexual women to remain monogamous. It may be that society would be better off if sexuality were more accepted and couples could do sexual things outside the bedroom that add spice to their relationship. There is a slippery slope, though. Porn, for instance, is a real problem for relationships because it creates an unrealistic expectation of attractiveness and provides solo outlet that interferes with pair bonding. Once couples move toward the involvement of others, whether it's pornography, or whether it's a sex party, there is the danger that the ties of the pair bond will weaken. Of course, suppression only works to a point and can result in even catastrophic problems, as when celibate priests molest children. While I think pedophilia is a mental disorder, I'm not convinced that forced celibacy can't cause it.

Lesbians should be more inclined to long-term monogamous relationships than heterosexual men, so one might argue that marriage is a lesbian thing more than it's a heterosexual thing. Lol. I like the old joke about the dating process. Gay men: 1. Kiss. 2. Have sex. 3. Find out his name. 4. Have a three-way. Gay women: 1. Find out her name. 2. Buy a dog. 3. Move in together. 4. Have sex.

Last edited by XYZ (2006-01-03 5:45 pm)

Was there anyone with a toaster in line?

Tallgeese wrote:

I hear he's Brazilian.

Ronald Reagan wrote:

D'Eyncourt wrote:

Was there anyone with a toaster in line?

A friend of mine tried to marry his pet goat, but was turned down.

And this one married a dolphin:
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_16 … s.quirkies

Actually, what seems to do the most harm to marriage is the replacement of the extended family with the nuclear family due to industrialization.

robco wrote:

So, now we have to put up with the same uncomfortable questions as heterosexuals.

Ha ha!  Serves you right!

No, that's a very happy for you "serves you right."  That's a great sign of progress towards "winning hearts and minds."

My mom keeps asking us when we're going to have kids.  CONSTANTLY.  She's SO looking forward to grandkids, but we're just not ready yet.  It's exactly as tiring as you're describing it... so my wife has used it to mess with her.

Mrs. 'Meal: "Hi Grandma." 
Mom:    "H.. what?!?"
Mrs. 'Meal: "Just kidding. Hi, Mom."

ShnickyShnack wrote:

Turns out you married something of a smartass.

Nah, just playful.
Smartass would be if Oatie called home while being away for several months and she said "Hi Dad".

'Tis far better to be a smartass than a dumbass