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Or shepherds.

Really, there's a whole lot about the "western" culture that's really really ambiguously gay. But it's not necessarily Castro St gay... it's Folsom St gay.

Leather, horses, tight pants, big belts, the occasional mustache, manly men with 5 O'clock shadows, plaid, etc.   

I think being reminded of this really freaks out the bible belt homophobes

Considering that you're a huge Marvel comics zombie, Duke, I'm surprised you aren't a regular reader of The Rawhide Kid — the original gay cowboy ("Slap leather!").

AAPL Shareholder wrote:

Eventually the homophobes shut up when then movie dropped out of the limelight.

How courteous of them.

bedstuy wrote:

Need I remind all of you that the "leather man" look is merely a form of drag?  Conceptually speaking of course.  They'd deny it though thoroughly but it's still a form of drag.

Also, in today's urban black world there's a new form of drag that manifests itself in a "thug/gangsta" look for some.  They look like your average corner drug dealer until they open their mouths.

bedstuy wrote:

bratboy wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Need I remind all of you that the "leather man" look is merely a form of drag?  Conceptually speaking of course.  They'd deny it though thoroughly but it's still a form of drag.

Also, in today's urban black world there's a new form of drag that manifests itself in a "thug/gangsta" look for some.  They look like your average corner drug dealer until they open their mouths.

what?

I realized that I had misread your post after I responded, but then I forgot about that and went and did something else.

I initially thought your post was talking about the gay "urban black world."

bedstuy wrote:

Need I remind all of you that the "leather man" look is merely a form of drag?  Conceptually speaking of course.  They'd deny it though thoroughly but it's still a form of drag.

Also, in today's urban black world there's a new form of drag that manifests itself in a "thug/gangsta" look for some.  They look like your average corner drug dealer until they open their mouths.

Depends on your definition of "drag" though, doesn't it? If you mean "clothing typical of one sex worn by a person of the opposite sex -- often used in the phrase in drag" [www.m-w.com] then no since no gender crossing is intended. If you mean a more relaxed definition as in putting on a "costume" to exhibit a character you do not actually possess, then that may be equally applied to leather, gansta, business suits, grunge, church lady, "jeans and a t-shirt" and much more. Clothing as an affectation, in other words, regardless of gender.

At some point then ALL clothing is "drag".

KingFred wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Need I remind all of you that the "leather man" look is merely a form of drag?  Conceptually speaking of course.  They'd deny it though thoroughly but it's still a form of drag.

Also, in today's urban black world there's a new form of drag that manifests itself in a "thug/gangsta" look for some.  They look like your average corner drug dealer until they open their mouths.

Depends on your definition of "drag" though, doesn't it? If you mean "clothing typical of one sex worn by a person of the opposite sex -- often used in the phrase in drag" [www.m-w.com] then no since no gender crossing is intended. If you mean a more relaxed definition as in putting on a "costume" to exhibit a character you do not actually possess, then that may be equally applied to leather, gansta, business suits, grunge, church lady, "jeans and a t-shirt" and much more. Clothing as an affectation, in other words, regardless of gender.

At some point then ALL clothing is "drag".

It's a matter of degrees and intent.  But yeah, I think "drag" can encompass more than than the usual "cross dressing."  Think of Paris Is Burning and the Butch Queen category as merely one example.

bedstuy wrote:

bratboy wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

what?

I realized that I had misread your post after I responded, but then I forgot about that and went and did something else.

I initially thought your post was talking about the gay "urban black world."

oh... sorry.  I *was* referencing the gay urban black world.

Then I stand by my !

bedstuy wrote:

What's so shocking?  Do you not have this in Illinois?

If you really want some fun I know a bathhouse in Harlem that's been there for almost a century (right across from Rev. Sharpton's offices!) that's completely gay.  And no, I've not gone.

Well, I live in Indiana.

But now that I think of it, I suppose I have seen something of the sort at some of the bars in Kentucky (I don't go often because I don't like them, but my bf does).

Sternum wrote:

Considering that you're a huge Marvel comics zombie, Duke, I'm surprised you aren't a regular reader of The Rawhide Kid — the original gay cowboy ("Slap leather!").

I had no idea. I just subscribe to the Avengers these days and don't even go to comic book shops any more. I guess this kills the idea that Daredevil is one of the Rawhide Kid's descendants.

bedstuy wrote:

snip

:Covers my innocent ears and stares going lalalalalalalala:

KingFred wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Need I remind all of you that the "leather man" look is merely a form of drag?  Conceptually speaking of course.  They'd deny it though thoroughly but it's still a form of drag.

Also, in today's urban black world there's a new form of drag that manifests itself in a "thug/gangsta" look for some.  They look like your average corner drug dealer until they open their mouths.

Depends on your definition of "drag" though, doesn't it? If you mean "clothing typical of one sex worn by a person of the opposite sex -- often used in the phrase in drag" [www.m-w.com] then no since no gender crossing is intended. If you mean a more relaxed definition as in putting on a "costume" to exhibit a character you do not actually possess, then that may be equally applied to leather, gansta, business suits, grunge, church lady, "jeans and a t-shirt" and much more. Clothing as an affectation, in other words, regardless of gender.

At some point then ALL clothing is "drag".

Did you say "grunge?"

:digs out "stompers" and flannel: