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bedstuy wrote:

resedit wrote:

NoExit wrote:

im going to base it on the fact that the jews are no longer gods chosen people.

Yes they are.
Read Paul - the Gentiles are grafted into the vine, the vine did not change.
Being chosen isn't enough - they still have to believe God, but that was always the case.

Muslims believe in the same God too.

There's a difference between "believing in" God and believing God.

resedit wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

resedit wrote:

Yes they are.
Read Paul - the Gentiles are grafted into the vine, the vine did not change.
Being chosen isn't enough - they still have to believe God, but that was always the case.

Muslims believe in the same God too.

There's a difference between "believing in" God and believing God.

I'm sorry, but I have no smurfing idea what that means.

Chickenhawk wrote:

resedit wrote:

bedstuy wrote:

Muslims believe in the same God too.

There's a difference between "believing in" God and believing God.

I'm sorry, but I have no smurfing idea what that means.

The Satanist, as an extreme example, believes that YHWH exists. However, they do not believe in His perfection or that He seeks a personal relationship with mankind, choosing to believe from a different viewpoint that's not compatible with other personal viewpoints.

One can recognize the existence of God without recognize His almighty stature. I'd argue it's not healthy, but the viewpoint is out there.

Wow.

The dissolving of the Religious Right begins. Some people just don't know when to quit.

ShnickyShnack wrote:

resedit wrote:

Chickenhawk wrote:

I'm sorry, but I have no smurfing idea what that means.

Abraham believed God - and it was reckoned unto him as righteousness.
Jesus called the Pharisees sons of Satan because they did not believe God, and if they were sons of Abraham they would have believed God - for Abraham believed God.

Muslims, with exception of Christian Muslims, believe Muhhamed - they do not believe God.
If they believed God, they would not reject Messiah - for he came from God.

They may believe the God of Abraham exists - but they do not believe him, they instead believe a false prophet.

No, they believe in God -- they just believe that Muhammad was His prophet. Muhammad wasn't God.

Also, I'd be interested to know what the heck a Christian Muslim might be. Is that like a Jew for Jesus?

Probably mostly due to my region, but I've yet to meet a Christian Muslim.

I've met a few Jew for Jesus' folk, though. Even some that ran a church.

They're delightfully kooky, from what I can stereotype.

NoExit wrote:

resedit wrote:

Muslims, with exception of Christian Muslims, believe Muhhamed - they do not believe God.
If they believed God, they would not reject Messiah - for he came from God.

the jews rejected the messiah too... and yet you say they are gods people...

They are chosen by God.
They still must believe God.

They were chosen to be a nation of priests, and the Old Testament is full of judgements against them for rejecting God. They are his chosen people, chosen to recieve his message and be a light upon a hill to the other nations.

I think I get it now ... Muslims don't "believe God" because they don't accept the Bible as the revealed word of his nibs, although lots of the bible was incorporated into the Koran, I believe.

So for the 58,395,305th time I'm back wondering what makes your viewpoint so guldarmed divine. One may as well say that Christians don't believe God because they don't accept that Muhammad was His prophet.

Phydeaux wrote:

NoExit wrote:

then why the hell aren't we all jewish

Because God hates you, NoX. He hates you real good.

haha you wish heathen.

resedit wrote:

They may believe the God of Abraham exists - but they do not believe him, they instead believe a false prophet.

Funny, Muslims would say that you do the same thing by following Paul who bastardized (In arabic: tahrif) the true Gospel (in arabic: injil) of Christ.

Phydeaux wrote:

The dissolving of the Religious Right begins.

Ralph Reed is alive and well.

resedit wrote:

KHannon wrote:

resedit wrote:

They may believe the God of Abraham exists - but they do not believe him, they instead believe a false prophet.

Funny, Muslims would say that you do the same thing by following Paul who bastardized (In arabic: tahrif) the true Gospel (in arabic: injil) of Christ.

Yes they would, and they do.

Two sides, neither with a convincing case, but absolute conviction that they're right. That's what I see.

Pat has issued an apology to Sharon's family, and Israel has accepted it.

I don't know Pat, but I've said "Hello" in passing around campus. I work for Pat (indirectly), and while I don't share many of his views, I would like to come to the man's defense, at least a little:

Pat has the privilege and responsibility of having his own broadcast network. CBN is more than just the 700 Club; it comprises several programs, as well as a worldwide network of charitable organizations and Christian outreach programs. Pat is a Bible literalist, so his evangelism is always going to reflect that. I think that, in his advanced years (he's nearly 76 years old), he is starting to lose the capacity to self-edit some of his thoughts before they leave his mouth. This is not an uncommon phenomenon, and it isn't limited to the elderly...how many times has any of us said something stupid, maybe in the heat of the moment, maybe before thinking it out? I know I do that occasionally. I think most of us do. Unfortunately for Pat, when he does it, it's seen by millions of viewers around the world, and since his religious and political views are so far to the right, there is no shortage of critics to jump all over him.

People tend to have an overly cynical view of Pat. I personally think he's an honorable man with honorable intentions, even if I don't agree with most of his views. Let us not forget that Pat started Operation Blessing, which has helped feed, provide medical care for, temporarily house, and provide irrigation for needy people throughout the world, whether they are in impoverished nations or regions or they are victims of natural disasters. I think that should also be factored into the criticism that comes his way whenever he makes an error in judgement. Nobody ever seems to recognize that side of Pat...they just look at him as a crazy extremist televangelist. He's really not all that bad once you understand his views.

Again, I don't agree with most of his views (we're both Christians, that's about it -- and I don't even think Pat would agree that I'm a Christian if he were to discuss theology with me)...but just try to look at it from the other side of the fence. Someone in Pat's position is going to be scrutinized whatever they do; there will always be a faction of critics just waiting for blunders like this one, and I think that's unfortunate, because it diminishes his good works for the world.