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Two good studies to look at are the noise blasts study and the Bobo doll study.

College students who wrote an essay and were told their essay is the worst a peer had ever read were given the option of blasting their critic with noise. Students who were in a room with a punching bag gave louder blasts for longer durations.

The Bobo doll study had children who watched adults beat up the doll. They were in a room filled with toys. The children who saw the adults beating Bobo imitated them when the adults left the room, but ALL the children who didn't see an adult beating Bobo played with other toys and ignored Bobo. And, they didn't behave violently.

Another study found that just having weapons in a room dramatically increased the violent thoughts and behavior of young men.

How much is the media brainwashing us? Even without video games, the media plays a powerful role in schema activation, with the "War on Terror", and so forth.

XYZ wrote:

Studies have shown that the more someone behaves violently, the more likely they are to behave violently.

But sitting at a computer mashing the keys is not what I'd call "behaving violently."  It's engaging in a fantasy of violence--and whether or not fantasy can be equated with reality is the crux of this entire debate.

Does engaging in fantasy acts of violence make me more prone to commit real acts of violence?  Depends, I think.  Assuming I enjoy the fantasy (not everyone does), is my enjoyment contingent upon the fact that I know that the violence isn't real?  In my case, I think so.  I like violent video games yet I've never been in a fight.  It's even possible that playing violent video games has made me even less violent, because it satisfies my latent violent urges and/or emphasizes the consequences of violence. 

OTOH, if I were someone else I might learn, from the fantasy experience, that engaging in real violence is something I'd enjoy doing.

XYZ wrote:

How much is the media brainwashing us? Even without video games, the media plays a powerful role in schema activation, with the "War on Terror", and so forth.
...
Is a new generation of young men being programmed to yearn for constant war, expect it, or tolerate it?

See, I think this is the wrong way to think about it.  I just read your posts.  I've been influenced by them in some way.  I might even be somewhat convinced to change my behavior in a way you intend (though you'd be hard pressed to show that video game producers actually intend to encourage real acts of violence).  That doesn't mean that you "brainwashed" or "programmed" me.  I'm not a passive receptacle.  My reaction to the medium depends as much upon who I am and what I believe as it depends upon the content of the medium.

I don't think there's any such thing as a medium that inherently and inevitably has a uniform effect upon humans.

XYZ wrote:

Reading this article, I thought about the 60 Minutes story about "Fatal1ty", and professional video games. Seeing huge conference centers filled with nearly endless rows of computers with young men on them trying to kill each other in Finland, not just the US, made me think about conservative politics.

Conservative politicians are the ones most likely to try to ban violent video games.

Last edited by charon (2006-01-25 7:32 pm)

Joe Lieberman is a conservative. Jack Thompson (IIRC) is a Republican, but he's also an idiot.

Violence by children has decreased along with violence in general, in the U.S., for several years now.

jerwin wrote:

Joe Lieberman is a conservative. Jack Thompson (IIRC) is a Republican, but he's also an idiot.

Jack Thompson had better hope that himself and I don't ever wind up in the same room together, or I'll prove him right. And it'll be the last thing he's ever right about.

[Tycho?] wrote:

resedit wrote:

charon wrote:

Violence by children has decreased along with violence in general, in the U.S., for several years now.

Has it?

I've heard that as well, from several sources. I guess I should clarify that, that violent crime has decreased, not neccessarly violence. I dunno, try looking on wikipedia for violent crime or something, I dont have time to search for it at the moment.

According to this the juvenile crime rate reached an all-time low in 1997, anyway, so I guess it appears to be going down overall.

Farmerkev wrote:

Duke Stratosphere wrote:

[Tycho?] wrote:

I've heard that as well, from several sources. I guess I should clarify that, that violent crime has decreased, not neccessarly violence. I dunno, try looking on wikipedia for violent crime or something, I dont have time to search for it at the moment.

According to this the juvenile crime rate reached an all-time low in 1997, anyway, so I guess it appears to be going down overall.

I'm sure that was only because Clinton was in office.
It's surely skyrocketed to a billion times the previous high with the conservatives and Adolf Bush in power.

Looks to me like someone wants a bonus point from Jaligard.

Here is a page that claims there are three factors (family, peers and school) that influence the development of delinquency in a juvenile. However, it also lists burglary and violent sexual assault as symptoms of juvenile delinquency (how smurfing obvious is that) so I am tending to doubt if they are really the experts they present themselves as. The point, I guess, is that violent video games aren't mentioned, but those three factors are copied straight from some other experts report, which dates from 1992 when, of course, the most violent video game in existence was pretty much RISK.

Last edited by Duke Stratosphere (2006-01-25 11:40 pm)

:camps XYZ corpse in order to grief the noob:

So you're arguing that Karl Rove is behind world-domination and violent games?

Farmerkev wrote:

Duke Stratosphere wrote:

[Tycho?] wrote:

I've heard that as well, from several sources. I guess I should clarify that, that violent crime has decreased, not neccessarly violence. I dunno, try looking on wikipedia for violent crime or something, I dont have time to search for it at the moment.

According to this the juvenile crime rate reached an all-time low in 1997, anyway, so I guess it appears to be going down overall.

I'm sure that was only because Clinton was in office.
It's surely skyrocketed to a billion times the previous high with the conservatives and Adolf Bush in power.

Thank you for participating. Idiot.

I think the idea is that exposure to violent gaming reinforces real-life urges in those already suseptible. Maybe the idea of a "tipping-point" comes into play.

iBubba wrote:

But seriously, the proposition that gamers are more tolerant of war borders on asinine, imho.

I wouldn't be surprised if people who are attracted to fantasy violence are disproportionately likely to enjoy actual violence as well.  But that's not the same as saying that doing one causes the other.