Quantcast

Forums | MacLife

You are not logged in.

#1 2006-02-17 12:11 pm

Nefarious
Snowbelt Tailor
Moderator
From: 45°22"N 84°57"W
Registered: 2002-09-30
Posts: 8182

National security sold out

EDIT:  NEW INFO.  http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displa … 3280/79427   I need a rethink..

Highest bidder to protect Port of New York: United Arab Emirates

The Bush administration has granted access to our most important ports to the government of the United Arab Emirates:


The Bush administration dismissed the security concerns of local officials yesterday and restated its approval of a deal that will give a company based in Dubai a major role in operating ports in and around New York City.
Representatives of the White House and the Treasury Department said they had given their approval for Dubai Ports World to do business in the United States after a rigorous review. The decision, they said, was final.

Dubai Ports World is buying the British company that currently operates the cruise-ship terminal on the West Side of Manhattan, one of the biggest cargo terminals in New York Harbor, and terminals in Philadelphia, Baltimore and other big ports.

Dubai Ports World is controlled by the UAE royal family. The decision to grant the $6.8 billion sale to Dubai was made by the Committee on Foreign Investments in the United States .  Who sits on the committee?  The Director of the Office of Science and Technology Policy, the Assistant to the President for National Security Affairs, the Assistant to the President for Economic Policy, the Department of Homeland Security, the Secretaries of State, Defense, and Commerce, the Attorney General, the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, the U.S. Trade Representative, and the Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisers. The Committee is chaired by the Secretary of the Treasury.

So Gonzales, Rice, Rumsfeld, Snow, and an other Bush administration officials conducted a security review and decided--unanimously--that the sale did not post a national security threat.  How thorough was their investigation? They did not conduct background checks on senior managers of the company, nor did they ask how the company screens its own employees. You know, just in case a terrorist wants to infiltrate the company that now has unprecedented and unfettered access to our ports.

Read the whole article to see some really bi-partisan criticism.

Last edited by Nefarious Bidding (2006-02-21 2:24 pm)


Team Folding:  Most Intel Mac users can upgrade to Folding@Home version 6.26.1

Offline

 

#2 2006-02-17 12:20 pm

mo' ron
PS3 4 EVA
From: NC, USA
Registered: 2002-10-15
Posts: 14482

Re: National security sold out

I read the NYTimes article linked from that page, and I don't see ANYTHING that would indicate that this company is a bit shady, other than the fact they are in the middle east, and have "Arab" in their country name. None of those in and of themselves means "security threat" and it even seems that this Dubai Ports World has a lot of experience with this kind of thing.

I'm sure the president's crew knows just as well as anyone how sketchy arabs are, and they wouldn't have made this decision lightly (unless of course they're in cahoots with the terr'ists, which this is also no significant evidence of).


What is the difference between Vista and OSX?
- Microsoft employees are excited about OSX.

Online

 

#3 2006-02-17 2:08 pm

Robert B.
Reality Deficient
From: The pit of despair
Registered: 1999-03-09
Posts: 10312

Re: National security sold out

Maybe you guys should get the Minutemen Militia to stand guard.


"Evil will always triumph because Good is dumb."

Offline

 

#4 2006-02-20 1:35 pm

knobtwirler
Anthropocentric Temporal Chauvinist
From: NYC
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 3270

Re: National security sold out

By the time these stories get printed, they have an air of racism about them because of the Saudi connection in the 9/11 attacks. This is the knee-jerk reaction and only the tip of the iceberg to such a story. Only after digging deeper is every reader of this news relieved to find out that there is nothing to fear, the workers at the ports are not going to be Arabs, and very little will change in operations.
When you look at the liberal view of such an incident, it is that the President is an idiot and he is responsible for any security risk, that is if you think it's a risk, cause it's not once you learn the facts. The conservative view is that when you look at the facts you will see it's not a risk, because the Bush Administration is not objecting to the purchase and they know what they are doing.
When looking at the ultra-liberal view, it's fantastic that we are empowering the UAE with our 6 ports, and we should give them more power in this country to end all war, so Bush is an idiot for not doing more sooner. The ultra-conservative view is that Bush and Congress are idiots by giving up the country's security; our hands will be bound by terrorists.
It sucks to be the President of the United States of America right now.


If you look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

Offline

 

#5 2006-02-20 1:53 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 51857
Website

Re: National security sold out

Yes - as I understand it, the UAE will have absolutely zero say over port security and port security procedures.

I personally would prefer an american company run the place - but shrug - that's just because I like to keep as much money here as possible. Call me selfish.


There are two kinds of people who keep rattlesnakes.
Those who have been bit, and those who will be bit. - Al Wolf.

Offline

 

#6 2006-02-20 1:55 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 19113

Re: National security sold out

Strategically important things like ports should not be under foreign control under any circumstances. My objection have absolutely nothing to do with what seem to be completely groundless accusations against the UAE.
I would feel exactly the same way if it were any other country and I am surprised to find out we have allowed foreign companies to run out ports before.
Some things you keep under direct local control no matter what and this would be one of those.
Whats next? I bet we could get a fantastic bid out of the Russians to manage our nuclear power plants.
Heck that would be a real money saver, those guys work for peanuts and iodine pills.

Last edited by Pariah (2006-02-20 1:55 pm)


But now the sun beats down on the asphalt land
Like a hammer invoked from God's left hand
What little still grows cringes in the shadows till the night fall...

Online

 

#7 2006-02-20 1:57 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 51857
Website

Re: National security sold out

Pariah wrote:

I bet we could get a fantastic bid out of the Russians to manage our nuclear power plants.

Iran is offering for even less.

wink


There are two kinds of people who keep rattlesnakes.
Those who have been bit, and those who will be bit. - Al Wolf.

Offline

 

#8 2006-02-20 1:58 pm

knobtwirler
Anthropocentric Temporal Chauvinist
From: NYC
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 3270

Re: National security sold out

The balance of power here seems to be economy. Although the previous owner is a London-based company, nobody seemed to care or know until now. Once you realize the flow of money must be sustained which means business as usual, it doesn't matter what country owns the company running a port, as long as the work continues.


If you look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

Offline

 

#9 2006-02-20 2:19 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 19113

Re: National security sold out

knobtwirler wrote:

The balance of power here seems to be economy. Although the previous owner is a London-based company, nobody seemed to care or know until now. Once you realize the flow of money must be sustained which means business as usual, it doesn't matter what country owns the company running a port, as long as the work continues.

Yes, that would be the ultra materialist faith holding that there is no other posible motivation than profit.


But now the sun beats down on the asphalt land
Like a hammer invoked from God's left hand
What little still grows cringes in the shadows till the night fall...

Online

 

#10 2006-02-20 2:37 pm

Ribtorus
Member
Registered: 2002-07-11
Posts: 14116

Re: National security sold out

I like that a senior Dubai Ports executive left that comany just last month, gets appointed by the president to a cabinet position dealing with ports, then a month later his former company lands the aquisition and the rights to some major ports in the U.S.  I think the real story's buried in there.


I just don't think I could see myself living in a house without mirrors.

Offline

 

#11 2006-02-20 3:23 pm

knobtwirler
Anthropocentric Temporal Chauvinist
From: NYC
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 3270

Re: National security sold out

Ribtorus wrote:

I like that a senior Dubai Ports executive left that comany just last month, gets appointed by the president to a cabinet position dealing with ports, then a month later his former company lands the aquisition and the rights to some major ports in the U.S.  I think the real story's buried in there.

That sounds amazingly realistic; do you have any links to support these events?


If you look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

Offline

 

#12 2006-02-20 3:31 pm

Ribtorus
Member
Registered: 2002-07-11
Posts: 14116

Re: National security sold out

knobtwirler wrote:

Ribtorus wrote:

I like that a senior Dubai Ports executive left that comany just last month, gets appointed by the president to a cabinet position dealing with ports, then a month later his former company lands the aquisition and the rights to some major ports in the U.S.  I think the real story's buried in there.

That sounds amazingly realistic; do you have any links to support these events?

Sure. Dubai Ports World's own company website.

http://www.dpiterminals.com/fullnews.asp?NewsID=39

It may be nothing, but it's at least newsworthy to mention in any article dealing with the subject and I'm surprised to see it has not been more widely reported.


I just don't think I could see myself living in a house without mirrors.

Offline

 

#13 2006-02-20 3:35 pm

Tallgeese
Homo loquax nonnumquam sapiens
Registered: 2000-10-17
Posts: 34923

Re: National security sold out

Pariah wrote:

knobtwirler wrote:

The balance of power here seems to be economy. Although the previous owner is a London-based company, nobody seemed to care or know until now. Once you realize the flow of money must be sustained which means business as usual, it doesn't matter what country owns the company running a port, as long as the work continues.

Yes, that would be the ultra materialist faith holding that there is no other posible motivation than profit.

Dubai is the largest and fastest growing commercial port in the world (or close to it). UAE is one of the most liberal Muslim countries. I really don't think we have to worry.


I still believe in liberalism today as much as I ever did, but, oh, there was a happy time when I believed in liberals.

Offline

 

#14 2006-02-20 3:38 pm

Shadowless
Cpl, USMC
From: Jacksonville, NC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 3061

Re: National security sold out

I think this is a good move. It'll show the Arab world that we can trust them, and that some of them can handle responsibility maturely.


http://imagegen.last.fm/Awesome35/artists/3/ShadowlessDJ.gif
http://dragcave.net/image/Z3Ai.gifhttp://dragcave.net/image/Ss7K.gif

Offline

 

#15 2006-02-21 1:02 am

Duke Stratosphere
Winter Rebel
From: Iowa
Registered: 2003-12-10
Posts: 3731
Website

Re: National security sold out

Shadowless wrote:

I think this is a good move. It'll show the Arab world that we can trust them, and that some of them can handle responsibility maturely.

The Emirs are cool. They live in the Arab world a lot more than the Muslim world. Why do you think they're not part of Saudi Arabia? Because they wouldn't let Mohammed convert them when he tried, that's why. shrug I've never heard of them tolerating any terrorists in their midst or teaching grade school children to kill infidels.


"Make the most of the hemp seed.  Sow it everywhere."  --George Washington (No party)

Offline

 

#16 2006-02-21 6:38 am

macnuke
just a plano guy
Moderator
From: North Dallas 40
Registered: 2004-05-16
Posts: 7337

Re: National security sold out

http://homepage.mac.com/macnuke/cargoboat.jpg

hopefully, the quality of our ports will improve

Offline

 

#17 2006-02-21 7:03 am

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 19113

Re: National security sold out

Tallgeese wrote:

Pariah wrote:

knobtwirler wrote:

The balance of power here seems to be economy. Although the previous owner is a London-based company, nobody seemed to care or know until now. Once you realize the flow of money must be sustained which means business as usual, it doesn't matter what country owns the company running a port, as long as the work continues.

Yes, that would be the ultra materialist faith holding that there is no other posible motivation than profit.

Dubai is the largest and fastest growing commercial port in the world (or close to it). UAE is one of the most liberal Muslim countries. I really don't think we have to worry.

Damn you and your calm reasonibleness!! Damn you I say http://homepage.mac.com/oatmeal/MAF/maxes/shakefist.gif


But now the sun beats down on the asphalt land
Like a hammer invoked from God's left hand
What little still grows cringes in the shadows till the night fall...

Online

 

#18 2006-02-21 7:27 am

Nefarious
Snowbelt Tailor
Moderator
From: 45°22"N 84°57"W
Registered: 2002-09-30
Posts: 8182

Re: National security sold out

Historically, the Bush team shows an inclination to throw contracts around with "pork" being the prime issue, rather than national security.  (Halliburton)

The speed at which this decision became public (cough: out of nowhere ) makes me quite suspicious and deserves at the very least a good airing out.


Team Folding:  Most Intel Mac users can upgrade to Folding@Home version 6.26.1

Offline

 

#19 2006-02-21 8:14 am

Font/DA Mover
Singing "Daisy" now
From: System 6
Registered: 2005-12-12
Posts: 490

Re: National security sold out

used this:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en& … gle+Search

to find this:

http://www.halliburtonwatch.org/about_hal/iran.html

"In a letter  to New York City's fire and policy pension fund managers, who have also been raising the issue on behalf of Halliburton's shareholders, the company said that Halliburton Products and Services, a Cayman islands firm headquartered in Dubai, the United Arab Emirates, made over $39 million in 2003 (a $10 million increase from 2002) by selling oil-field services to customers in Iran.11

    When CBS Television's 60 Minutes program visited the address where Halliburton Products and Services is incorporated in the Cayman Islands, they discovered a "brass plate" operation with no employees whose agent - the Calidonian Bank -- forwards all of the company's mail to Halliburton's offices in Houston (instead of the company's operations in Dubai), "indicating that decision-making authority may be in Houston, not the Cayman Islands or Dubai," according to the Senators. In addition, it was reported that Halliburton's operations in Dubai share the same address, telephone and fax numbers as Halliburton Products and Services - an indication that the companies do not function separately.12"
------

I'd be interested to see how this looks at the end of trading today:

http://quote.morningstar.com/Quote.html?ticker=HAL

(I HATE their ticker=HAL)
-----
EDIT: Was this part of VP's Texas Massacre Weekend? Less than a week later; ten different agencies agree behind closed doors. Nice coincidence.

Last edited by Font/DA Mover (2006-02-21 8:18 am)


"As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness."
Justice William O. Douglas

Offline

 

#20 2006-02-21 10:02 am

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: National security sold out

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/393375p-333478c.html wrote:

NY Daily News

WASHINGTON - The Dubai firm that won Bush administration backing to run six U.S. ports has at least two ties to the White House.

One is Treasury Secretary John Snow, whose agency heads the federal panel that signed off on the $6.8 billion sale of an English company to government-owned Dubai Ports World - giving it control of Manhattan's cruise ship terminal and Newark's container port.

Snow was chairman of the CSX rail firm that sold its own international port operations to DP World for $1.15 billion in 2004, the year after Snow left for President Bush's cabinet.

The other connection is David Sanborn, who runs DP World's European and Latin American operations and was tapped by Bush last month to head the U.S. Maritime Administration....


The Daily News has learned that lawmakers also want to know if a detailed 45-day probe should have been conducted instead of one that lasted no more than 25 days.

According to a 1993 congressional measure, the longer review is mandated when the company is owned by a foreign government and the purchase "could result in control of a person engaged in interstate commerce in the U.S. that could affect the national security of the U.S."


Congressional sources said the President has until March 2 to trigger that harder look.

Offline

 

#21 2006-02-21 10:44 am

Ribtorus
Member
Registered: 2002-07-11
Posts: 14116

Re: National security sold out

I'm glad to see someone working in the news thinks Mr. Sanborn's ties the DPW and the White House are worth looking into.


I just don't think I could see myself living in a house without mirrors.

Offline

 

#22 2006-02-21 1:07 pm

Tetrachloride
❖ ❖ ❖
Registered: 2001-01-29
Posts: 7150

Re: National security sold out

We wouldn't turn over our customs service or our border patrol to a foreign government," [ Senator Robert Menendez, a Democrat of NJ ] , said during a news conference. "We shouldn't turn over the ports of the United States, either."  Forbes

Offline

 

#23 2006-02-21 2:26 pm

Nefarious
Snowbelt Tailor
Moderator
From: 45°22"N 84°57"W
Registered: 2002-09-30
Posts: 8182

Re: National security sold out

http://www.boomantribune.com/?op=displa … 3280/79427

There is a British company (not American) called the Peninsular & Oriental Steam Navigation Company or P&O for short.  Before 9/11 and until this year, this entirely foreign company was operating six maritime ports in the United States.  A company called Dubai World Ports (DWP) spent a few billion dollars (close to 7) and bought P&O, which means that DWP is now the third largest port operator in the world.

DWP also operates terminals and/or ports in Australia, China, Hong Kong, Romania, Germany, the Dominican Republic, Venezuela, Djibouti, India and Saudi Arabia.  Notice anything odd about those countries?  There have never been any international terrorist incidents in any of them.  If DWP was such a terrorist-lovin' company, why haven't their sprung their hordes of Qur'an-wavin' suicide bombers on all those other despicable, capitalist, western imperialist nations?

More rational thought continues in the story.


Team Folding:  Most Intel Mac users can upgrade to Folding@Home version 6.26.1

Offline

 

#24 2006-02-21 3:37 pm

bratboy
keeping the poor down
Royal Wombat
From: Austin, Texas
Registered: 2003-01-19
Posts: 34268

Re: National security sold out

When I hear "western imperialist nation," I immediately think of Djibouti.


"One thing we've learned is there's a difference between being disappointed and having madmen in authority."

                                                                   --Paul Krugman

Offline

 

#25 2006-02-21 3:43 pm

knobtwirler
Anthropocentric Temporal Chauvinist
From: NYC
Registered: 2003-07-28
Posts: 3270

Re: National security sold out

Just to add about Dubai, If you've ever seen anything advertised about vacationing in Dubai, it seems like the most decadent capitalist place that an infidel-destroying terrorist would surely attack as well.


If you look around the table and can't tell who the sucker is, it's you.

Offline

 

Board footer

Powered by PunBB 1.2.6
© Copyright 2002–2005 Rickard Andersson