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#1 2006-02-17 1:53 pm

Shadowless
Cpl, USMC
From: Jacksonville, NC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 3061

Defrag Program?

Just a quick question. Why is there no Defragmentation program in Utilities? Does OS X do this automatically, or is there something like Cocktail that'll do it for me?

Thanks.


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#2 2006-02-17 2:55 pm

pottymouth
Uncreative
Moderator
From: JP, MA
Registered: 2002-02-06
Posts: 17412
Website

Re: Defrag Program?

TechTool does it but I've been told that it's completely unnecessary.

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#3 2006-02-17 3:56 pm

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: Defrag Program?

Shadowless wrote:

Just a quick question. Why is there no Defragmentation program in Utilities? Does OS X do this automatically, or is there something like Cocktail that'll do it for me?

Thanks.

The OS does defrag medium to small sized files automatically.  It does not optimize the drive space (which is more commonly thought of as part of defraging).  My understanding is though that its not important unless you are doing video editing and need large amounts of continuous free space.


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#4 2006-02-17 3:58 pm

ElectricSheep
Member
Registered: 2003-07-20
Posts: 109

Re: Defrag Program?

Mac OS X uses something called "Hotfile Adaptive Clustering". The jist of this tech is that any file which is less than 20 megs in size is de-fragmented on the fly when it is accessed off the disk.

What about files larger than 20 megs? Well, i've only got 38 of them in my home directory, and they are all large media files which really never get modified, so their risk of fragmentation is fairly low.

In short, I wouldn't worry about defragmenting your hard drive.

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#5 2006-02-18 12:34 am

NAG
A witch!
Royal Wombat
From: /usr/local/apps/nag
Registered: 2000-09-22
Posts: 30229

Re: Defrag Program?

Yeah, you shouldn't need to unless you are doing something like video editting. The cost/benefit ratio just doesn't work out (the defrag programs can mess up your drive sometimes).


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#6 2006-02-18 3:20 pm

mtpalms
plz stand by
From: Telstar
Registered: 2002-09-16
Posts: 4534

Re: Defrag Program?

How about iDefrag?

This caught my eye:

"Even if you aren’t interested in defragmenting your hard disk, if you produce products on CD-ROM disks, iDefrag will be of use. Seek times on CD-ROM and DVD-ROM disks are many times slower than those of hard disk mechanisms, so fragmentation really hits performance, in some cases adding many minutes to read times. iDefrag can defragment disk images before they are burnt onto CD or DVD-ROM, optimizing access time and significantly reducing install or read times."

Is that a legitimate argument in favor of this software, or hype?

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#7 2006-02-18 5:33 pm

NAG
A witch!
Royal Wombat
From: /usr/local/apps/nag
Registered: 2000-09-22
Posts: 30229

Re: Defrag Program?

THere is no real reason to use it. Unless you have very little disk space on your hard drive (for instance, you probably shouldn't have only 1 gb free) it probably won't help anything. And if you do, I would suggest buying a new hard drive.


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#8 2006-02-18 5:48 pm

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: Defrag Program?

mtpalms wrote:

How about iDefrag?

This caught my eye:

"Even if you aren’t interested in defragmenting your hard disk, if you produce products on CD-ROM disks, iDefrag will be of use. Seek times on CD-ROM and DVD-ROM disks are many times slower than those of hard disk mechanisms, so fragmentation really hits performance, in some cases adding many minutes to read times. iDefrag can defragment disk images before they are burnt onto CD or DVD-ROM, optimizing access time and significantly reducing install or read times."

Is that a legitimate argument in favor of this software, or hype?

A fragmented cd/dvd would be bad.  But I don't see how you'd get a fragmented disk image.  If you copy all the files to the image, each one gets copied in order, so the image won't be fragmented.


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#9 2006-02-18 5:57 pm

NAG
A witch!
Royal Wombat
From: /usr/local/apps/nag
Registered: 2000-09-22
Posts: 30229

Re: Defrag Program?

It is definately a specialty app.


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#10 2006-02-18 9:48 pm

gulmatan
Member
Registered: 2005-03-10
Posts: 250

Re: Defrag Program?

This makes no sense at all.

Think about it--as files are created, modified, moved, copied or deleted, space is needed in its new destination.  Likewise, when a file is deleted, the space it takes is vacant.  So, here comes a new file--look for an open block that the new doc will fit in.  It may fit in a heap of free space but there are also the instances where a file is too big and may have to be segmented such that it fits--partly in one area of free space and other portions of said file may have to be segmented up to fit in remaining free areas of the hard drive.  Just like a cupboard of cereal, soups, potato chips, etc.  A HD is just as vulnerable to scattering storage just as a file drawer or kitchen cupboard.

Over time, files are moved and jumbled around regardless of OS (Linux, OS/9, OS/X, etc.)

How is it then that the Mac is immune to fragmentation?  I am not convinced.  What makes the Mac OS so impervious to fragmentation?


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#11 2006-02-18 10:00 pm

kb5zhh
Large Outsider (native)
From: Baator
Registered: 2002-08-13
Posts: 14066
Website

Re: Defrag Program?

gulmatan wrote:

How is it then that the Mac is immune to fragmentation?  I am not convinced.  What makes the Mac OS so impervious to fragmentation?

It defrags itself, and the filesystem is such that fragmentation only affects large media files.


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#12 2006-02-18 10:22 pm

NAG
A witch!
Royal Wombat
From: /usr/local/apps/nag
Registered: 2000-09-22
Posts: 30229

Re: Defrag Program?


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#13 2006-02-18 11:22 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18425

Re: Defrag Program?

After 2 years of continuos use I checked the hard drive I pound the hardest, where I do all my downloading and where I keep my assorted caches. TTPro revealed under 1% fragmentation.
Under OS9 that same disk, used for the same thing would hit 25% easy after a couple of weeks. This just confirms for me what I have read, that defraging OSX is unnecessary.


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#14 2006-02-18 11:34 pm

Shadowless
Cpl, USMC
From: Jacksonville, NC
Registered: 2005-10-10
Posts: 3061

Re: Defrag Program?

Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).

I can't find a free defragmenting program, and I don't really want to pay $30 for something I'll only use once a year (and I probably won't use it after I upgrade her HD).


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#15 2006-02-19 9:01 am

mtpalms
plz stand by
From: Telstar
Registered: 2002-09-16
Posts: 4534

Re: Defrag Program?

Shadowless wrote:

Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).

If it's a one time deal, backup everything, reinitialize the drive, and reinstall, maybe do a little housekeeping filewise. It won't be perfect, depending on how much effort you put into it, but it shoud help.

In fact, you'll be donig this when you install a new HD anway.


My TiBook's only got a 10GB drive, so everything on it is pretty much necessary, leaving just about 4.5 GB free. I think about putting in a bigger drive, but I'm just not motivated enough.

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#16 2006-02-19 9:40 am

macnuke
just a plano guy
Moderator
From: North Dallas 40
Registered: 2004-05-16
Posts: 7134

Re: Defrag Program?

Shadowless wrote:

Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).

I can't find a free defragmenting program, and I don't really want to pay $30 for something I'll only use once a year (and I probably won't use it after I upgrade her HD).

what if you upgrade her? lol

you can always put her book in TDM and copy all the stuff off of it, erase and re-install.

you would probably be better served with a good DU to take care of the directory more so than the defrag

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