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#1 2006-02-17 1:53 pm
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC

- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Defrag Program?
Just a quick question. Why is there no Defragmentation program in Utilities? Does OS X do this automatically, or is there something like Cocktail that'll do it for me?
Thanks.
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#2 2006-02-17 2:55 pm
- pottymouth
- Uncreative
- Moderator

- From: JP, MA
- Registered: 2002-02-06
- Posts: 17412
- Website
Re: Defrag Program?
TechTool does it but I've been told that it's completely unnecessary.
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#3 2006-02-17 3:56 pm
Re: Defrag Program?
Shadowless wrote:
Just a quick question. Why is there no Defragmentation program in Utilities? Does OS X do this automatically, or is there something like Cocktail that'll do it for me?
Thanks.
The OS does defrag medium to small sized files automatically. It does not optimize the drive space (which is more commonly thought of as part of defraging). My understanding is though that its not important unless you are doing video editing and need large amounts of continuous free space.
It's a paradox of how sharply dull I am.
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#4 2006-02-17 3:58 pm
- ElectricSheep
- Member
- Registered: 2003-07-20
- Posts: 109
Re: Defrag Program?
Mac OS X uses something called "Hotfile Adaptive Clustering". The jist of this tech is that any file which is less than 20 megs in size is de-fragmented on the fly when it is accessed off the disk.
What about files larger than 20 megs? Well, i've only got 38 of them in my home directory, and they are all large media files which really never get modified, so their risk of fragmentation is fairly low.
In short, I wouldn't worry about defragmenting your hard drive.
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#5 2006-02-18 12:34 am
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Defrag Program?
Yeah, you shouldn't need to unless you are doing something like video editting. The cost/benefit ratio just doesn't work out (the defrag programs can mess up your drive sometimes).
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#6 2006-02-18 3:20 pm
- mtpalms
- plz stand by

- From: Telstar
- Registered: 2002-09-16
- Posts: 4534
Re: Defrag Program?
How about iDefrag?
This caught my eye:
"Even if you aren’t interested in defragmenting your hard disk, if you produce products on CD-ROM disks, iDefrag will be of use. Seek times on CD-ROM and DVD-ROM disks are many times slower than those of hard disk mechanisms, so fragmentation really hits performance, in some cases adding many minutes to read times. iDefrag can defragment disk images before they are burnt onto CD or DVD-ROM, optimizing access time and significantly reducing install or read times."
Is that a legitimate argument in favor of this software, or hype?
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#7 2006-02-18 5:33 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Defrag Program?
THere is no real reason to use it. Unless you have very little disk space on your hard drive (for instance, you probably shouldn't have only 1 gb free) it probably won't help anything. And if you do, I would suggest buying a new hard drive.
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#8 2006-02-18 5:48 pm
Re: Defrag Program?
mtpalms wrote:
How about iDefrag?
This caught my eye:
"Even if you aren’t interested in defragmenting your hard disk, if you produce products on CD-ROM disks, iDefrag will be of use. Seek times on CD-ROM and DVD-ROM disks are many times slower than those of hard disk mechanisms, so fragmentation really hits performance, in some cases adding many minutes to read times. iDefrag can defragment disk images before they are burnt onto CD or DVD-ROM, optimizing access time and significantly reducing install or read times."
Is that a legitimate argument in favor of this software, or hype?
A fragmented cd/dvd would be bad. But I don't see how you'd get a fragmented disk image. If you copy all the files to the image, each one gets copied in order, so the image won't be fragmented.
It's a paradox of how sharply dull I am.
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#9 2006-02-18 5:57 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Defrag Program?
It is definately a specialty app.
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#10 2006-02-18 9:48 pm
- gulmatan
- Member
- Registered: 2005-03-10
- Posts: 250
Re: Defrag Program?
This makes no sense at all.
Think about it--as files are created, modified, moved, copied or deleted, space is needed in its new destination. Likewise, when a file is deleted, the space it takes is vacant. So, here comes a new file--look for an open block that the new doc will fit in. It may fit in a heap of free space but there are also the instances where a file is too big and may have to be segmented such that it fits--partly in one area of free space and other portions of said file may have to be segmented up to fit in remaining free areas of the hard drive. Just like a cupboard of cereal, soups, potato chips, etc. A HD is just as vulnerable to scattering storage just as a file drawer or kitchen cupboard.
Over time, files are moved and jumbled around regardless of OS (Linux, OS/9, OS/X, etc.)
How is it then that the Mac is immune to fragmentation? I am not convinced. What makes the Mac OS so impervious to fragmentation?
PowerBook G4 1.5 GHz/1GB RAM/OS/X (10.4.11)
Windows--A fate in league with Communism.
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#11 2006-02-18 10:00 pm
Re: Defrag Program?
gulmatan wrote:
How is it then that the Mac is immune to fragmentation? I am not convinced. What makes the Mac OS so impervious to fragmentation?
It defrags itself, and the filesystem is such that fragmentation only affects large media files.
It's a paradox of how sharply dull I am.
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#12 2006-02-18 10:22 pm
- NAG
- A witch!
- Royal Wombat

- From: /usr/local/apps/nag
- Registered: 2000-09-22
- Posts: 30229
Re: Defrag Program?
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#13 2006-02-18 11:22 pm
- Pariah
- James Carville Fan..

- From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
- Registered: 2001-05-24
- Posts: 18425
Re: Defrag Program?
After 2 years of continuos use I checked the hard drive I pound the hardest, where I do all my downloading and where I keep my assorted caches. TTPro revealed under 1% fragmentation.
Under OS9 that same disk, used for the same thing would hit 25% easy after a couple of weeks. This just confirms for me what I have read, that defraging OSX is unnecessary.
"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama
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#14 2006-02-18 11:34 pm
- Shadowless
- Cpl, USMC

- From: Jacksonville, NC
- Registered: 2005-10-10
- Posts: 3061
Re: Defrag Program?
Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).
I can't find a free defragmenting program, and I don't really want to pay $30 for something I'll only use once a year (and I probably won't use it after I upgrade her HD).
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#15 2006-02-19 9:01 am
- mtpalms
- plz stand by

- From: Telstar
- Registered: 2002-09-16
- Posts: 4534
Re: Defrag Program?
Shadowless wrote:
Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).
If it's a one time deal, backup everything, reinitialize the drive, and reinstall, maybe do a little housekeeping filewise. It won't be perfect, depending on how much effort you put into it, but it shoud help.
In fact, you'll be donig this when you install a new HD anway.
My TiBook's only got a 10GB drive, so everything on it is pretty much necessary, leaving just about 4.5 GB free. I think about putting in a bigger drive, but I'm just not motivated enough.
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#16 2006-02-19 9:40 am
- macnuke
- just a plano guy
- Moderator

- From: North Dallas 40
- Registered: 2004-05-16
- Posts: 7134
Re: Defrag Program?
Shadowless wrote:
Yea, I'd usually agree, but my girlfriend's iBook is quite fragmented, and also only has 4.77GB available (I think I'll upgrade the HD this summer).
I can't find a free defragmenting program, and I don't really want to pay $30 for something I'll only use once a year (and I probably won't use it after I upgrade her HD).
what if you upgrade her? 
you can always put her book in TDM and copy all the stuff off of it, erase and re-install.
you would probably be better served with a good DU to take care of the directory more so than the defrag
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