Forums | MacLife

sturner · 2006-03-27 2:13 pm

Well, the first part of the Christian Bible is an edit from the Jewish tradition, the second half is used by Islamic tradition.

It's all an argument about which end of a poached egg you should open.

user · 2006-03-27 2:16 pm

The christian-going-to-hell or the muslim-going-to-hell-end?

How do you decide which end to open?

sturner · 2006-03-27 2:17 pm

I think they ought to go back to the orginal Jewish version.

Without the apocalypse

Last edited by sturner (2006-03-27 2:18 pm)

resedit · 2006-03-27 2:18 pm

user wrote:
I'm just pointing out that the Muslims also have End Time beliefs and those beliefs say that Christians are going to hell.

How did you decide that you are right and that they are wrong?

I'm not right.
Only God is.

This thread though was discussing the Christian writings, not comparative religion.

resedit · 2006-03-27 2:21 pm

user wrote:
Sez who?

Also: that's a pretty damn big edit!

The muslim writings are all Muhhamed and later.
The claim is that they are a restoration - but nothing prior to the Jewish and Christian canons has either been found - or even referenced by older (than Muhhamed) works.

user · 2006-03-27 2:24 pm

The Messiah will defeat the gentile nations (Zech 14:10) and restore the kingdom of Israel (Zech 14). The Jews in exile will return and rule in an age of spiritual harmony (Zech 14:5). Isaiah 42:6 will be fulfilled and God will be recognized as the universal king (Zech 14:9).

The Earth will be destroyed.

Bodies are sent to Gehinnon where they burn eternally in a fiery pit.

Sounds a bit more pleasant. Not sure about how nice "defeat the gentile nations" will be to the gentiles in those nations, though. At least nobody gets tormented in hell - sounds more like an eternal cordwood burn.

user · 2006-03-27 2:28 pm

resedit wrote:
user wrote:
I'm just pointing out that the Muslims also have End Time beliefs and those beliefs say that Christians are going to hell.

How did you decide that you are right and that they are wrong?
I'm not right.
Only God is.

This thread though was discussing the Christian writings, not comparative religion.

If you are making a choice between religions, YOU are making that decision.

How do you know that you are right?

I believe this thread is about End Times - why should we limit it to Christianity?

resedit · 2006-03-27 2:35 pm

user wrote:
If you are making a choice between religions, YOU are making that decision.

How do you know that you are right?

The Prophet Daniel gave accurate detailed specific prophecy that was fulfilled just as he said it would be. Islam has no such prophet, no religion does.

But no proof or evidence will be enough for you - you either want to believe, or you don't - and the evidence doesn't matter.

sturner · 2006-03-27 2:37 pm

resedit wrote:
user wrote:
If you are making a choice between religions, YOU are making that decision.

How do you know that you are right?
The Prophet Daniel gave accurate detailed specific prophecy that was fulfilled just as he said it would be. Islam has no such prophet, no religion does.

But no proof or evidence will be enough for you - you either want to believe, or you don't - and the evidence doesn't matter.

Which is the basis for religion. Either you believe or you don't.

user · 2006-03-27 4:03 pm

This wasn't about me. I wanted to you to articulate your reasons.

Also, as in the OP:

MacMonkey wrote:
...this just gave me the heebie jeebies...

was hj'ed about the subject, so I wanted to post something a bit....calming.

Proost · 2006-03-27 4:07 pm

After it ''ends'' there shall be a new world so there is no a real ending just the end from the world as we know it today. So the ''end'' isn't that bad perhaps, just that particular moment won't be nice and no use to worry about it if it may happen or not like you die one day, it happens when it happens before that why worry?

resedit · 2006-03-27 4:15 pm

sturner wrote:
resedit wrote:
user wrote:
If you are making a choice between religions, YOU are making that decision.

How do you know that you are right?
The Prophet Daniel gave accurate detailed specific prophecy that was fulfilled just as he said it would be. Islam has no such prophet, no religion does.

But no proof or evidence will be enough for you - you either want to believe, or you don't - and the evidence doesn't matter.
Which is the basis for religion. Either you believe or you don't.

There's no point in trying to prove it to people who don't want to believe.
Their mind is closed because they want it to be.
A guy could rise from the dead and they still would not believe.

sturner · 2006-03-27 4:25 pm

And that Res, is why religious debate is such a dead-end.

The believers will believe, and the dis-believers will not.

JakeTheTall · 2006-03-27 4:27 pm

resedit wrote:
user wrote:
Some people really like scaring themselves.
And they don't believe what the Bible says.
Wars and rumours wars, famine, etc. - they are not signs that the end is here, they are just the birthpangs.

Jesus is very clear "This Gospel will be preached to all ethnicities - and then the end will come".

That hasn't happened yet, and that is how we know it is here.

That's not to say we shouldn't pay attention. Birthpangs increase before the birth - as wars are certainly increasing. Israel is a nation again. A lot of things are done in the name of peace, but there is no peace. We are close to having the Gospel preached to every ethnicity.

Will it come in my lifetime?
I don't know. But it sure looks like it might.

How soon after the Gospel is preached to "all ethnicities" will the end come ?

Wars are increasing ? What ?

I wonder what the Flying Spaghetti Monster has said about end times.

Proost · 2006-03-27 4:38 pm

I really don't know but it's been said when there is not enough tomata sausage left the end is near.

user · 2006-03-27 5:30 pm

resedit wrote:
sturner wrote:
resedit wrote:

The Prophet Daniel gave accurate detailed specific prophecy that was fulfilled just as he said it would be. Islam has no such prophet, no religion does.

But no proof or evidence will be enough for you - you either want to believe, or you don't - and the evidence doesn't matter.
Which is the basis for religion. Either you believe or you don't.
There's no point in trying to prove it to people who don't want to believe.
Their mind is closed because they want it to be.
A guy could rise from the dead and they still would not believe.

Well, personally, I like a little evidence before I will believe an extraordinary claim.

It baffles me how so many people will demand evidence in their daily lives for relatively minor issues, but in this one really big thing they are willing to accept when someone tells them; just believe this story with absolutely no proof...it's even a positive character trait!

It's not that I don't want to believe, it's that I can't believe. You're calling a desire for proof "having a closed mind". I could say that you have closed your mind to the probability that all religions represent early attempts by humans to understand the world. We know so much more than we did way back then.

It's a real shame that many of us are still choosing to limit our understanding to what was available to early man - even to the point of killing each other over it.

StaticAge · 2006-03-27 5:46 pm

Everyone who makes a decision has a closed mind. Its not necessarilly a negative trait.

And as far as I know, most people here, whether athiests, theists of some sort, inbetween and undecided, rest their beliefs on some measure of trust than directly experienced empirical data. I dont care how scientificly solid a book is, unless you directly shared in the discovery, you are placing belief in someone else's work, writings, ideas, etc. Thats natural and practical. And ultimately, the question I think that matters most in either case is what your belief does for you yourself. If it helps you, that just might be all the proof required, no matter how difficult it is to "prove" that to someone who didnt share that moment of discovery or epiphany or change. In fact, if you ever directly experienced something True, be it the deepest love or the most fiery loyalty or moment of revolution or clarity of logic, its that experience more than any amount of syntactical data or words could express. It can never be translated directly like that, its not just a case of wanting to believe, its a matter of direct experience and engagement with dicovery that shows us Truth, and its something subjective every time.

To put it another way, the moment of eureka is never the symbols of the equation, its the understanding of what they stand in for and the relationship which is added by the mind that yeilds the precious moment of satisfaction.

Last edited by StaticAge (2006-03-27 5:49 pm)

charon · 2006-03-27 6:05 pm

resedit wrote:
sturner wrote:
resedit wrote:
The Prophet Daniel gave accurate detailed specific prophecy that was fulfilled just as he said it would be. Islam has no such prophet, no religion does.

But no proof or evidence will be enough for you - you either want to believe, or you don't - and the evidence doesn't matter.
Which is the basis for religion. Either you believe or you don't.
There's no point in trying to prove it to people who don't want to believe.
Their mind is closed because they want it to be.
A guy could rise from the dead and they still would not believe.

Oh, BS. Show me Lazarus and I'll believe. I'm not an atheist because I deny the possibility of gods. I was raised Jewish and stopped believing around age 11 because I didn't see any proof. I'm still patiently waiting for it.

[sarcasm]Do you believe in Santa Claus or are you a close-minded denialist?[/sarcasm]

Last edited by charon (2006-03-27 6:06 pm)

Tallgeese · 2006-03-27 8:47 pm

sturner wrote:
Well, the first part of the Christian Bible is an edit from the Jewish tradition, the second half is used by Islamic tradition.

It's all an argument about which end of a poached egg you should open.

Um, you don't open poached eggs.

Warin · 2006-03-27 9:17 pm

Tallgeese wrote:
sturner wrote:
Well, the first part of the Christian Bible is an edit from the Jewish tradition, the second half is used by Islamic tradition.

It's all an argument about which end of a poached egg you should open.
Um, you don't open poached eggs.

Well, we know that you are obviously a little endian! Heathen!

big_smile

Funny that Res chides someone for not having an open mind tho.

Proost · 2006-03-28 1:07 am

Respect is also 1 thing.

Saying it's stupid that people belief in such things, why say that anyway's?
Just stay out of this kind of discussions if you have zero belief, we already know that.

Warin · 2006-03-28 2:37 am

Proost wrote:
Respect is also 1 thing.

Saying it's stupid that people belief in such things, why say that anyway's?
Just stay out of this kind of discussions if you have zero belief, we already know that.

Was that aimed at me?

If so, what did you take offence to, my friend?

Proost · 2006-03-28 2:52 am

Warin wrote:
Was that aimed at me?

No, just a general comment for those who compare believing in a god as ''santa'' or saying it's just stupid with all the ''science'' from today to still believe in such a thing, etc..

Last edited by Proost (2006-03-28 2:53 am)

resedit · 2006-03-28 5:27 am

charon wrote:
Oh, BS. Show me Lazarus and I'll believe.

I don't believe you would.

In the parable of Lazarus (different from the guy Jesus raised from the dead) - Jesus made it clear.

Moses and the Prophets were sent - if you don't believe them, you would not believe a man coming back from the dead.

While Jesus was here, he performed many miracles, including raising people from the dead.
Yet when he didn't do things the way the people wanted, when he didn't overthrow Roman rule - they all shouted "Crucify Him".

You want God to do things your way for you to believe Him.
God does things His way, not our way. That is a problem for those who want God to do things their way.

resedit · 2006-03-28 5:28 am

btw - be very careful of saying you would believe because you are shown signs.

The Anti-christ will perform many signs and miracles, and deceive many.

Forums | MacLife

#51 2006-03-27 2:13 pm

Re: End times

#52 2006-03-27 2:16 pm

Re: End times

#53 2006-03-27 2:17 pm

Re: End times

#54 2006-03-27 2:18 pm

Re: End times

user wrote:

#55 2006-03-27 2:21 pm

Re: End times

user wrote:

#56 2006-03-27 2:24 pm

Re: End times

#57 2006-03-27 2:28 pm

Re: End times

resedit wrote:

user wrote:

#58 2006-03-27 2:35 pm

Re: End times

user wrote:

#59 2006-03-27 2:37 pm

Re: End times

resedit wrote:

user wrote:

#60 2006-03-27 4:03 pm

Re: End times

MacMonkey wrote:

#61 2006-03-27 4:07 pm

Re: End times

#62 2006-03-27 4:15 pm

Re: End times

sturner wrote:

resedit wrote:

user wrote:

#63 2006-03-27 4:25 pm

Re: End times

#64 2006-03-27 4:27 pm

Re: End times

resedit wrote:

user wrote:

#65 2006-03-27 4:38 pm

Re: End times

#66 2006-03-27 5:30 pm

Re: End times

resedit wrote:

sturner wrote:

resedit wrote:

#67 2006-03-27 5:46 pm

Re: End times

#68 2006-03-27 6:05 pm

Re: End times

resedit wrote:

sturner wrote:

resedit wrote:

#69 2006-03-27 8:47 pm

Re: End times

sturner wrote:

#70 2006-03-27 9:17 pm

Re: End times

Tallgeese wrote:

sturner wrote:

#71 2006-03-28 1:07 am

Re: End times

#72 2006-03-28 2:37 am

Re: End times

Proost wrote:

#73 2006-03-28 2:52 am

Re: End times

Warin wrote:

#74 2006-03-28 5:27 am

Re: End times

charon wrote:

#75 2006-03-28 5:28 am

Re: End times

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