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user wrote:

Pro_ wrote:

Jon Voisey wrote:

pretty cool stuff

yes this is sarcasm.

Sarcasm?

Actually far too accurate.

That's a keeper! Where did you find it?

Hello there. I'm the guy that originally wrote that "How to make a pro ID argument" checklist. I've been a bit surprised to discover recently that it's become quite popular and is making the rounds on mailing lists. When I compiled it, I didn't think it was anything special and figured it'd already been done before. Apparently not.

As far as where it came from, I originally came up with it for a discussion board on theforce.net about Intelligent Design. Dembski had recently been to my school (University of Kansas) and I've been studying ID/creationism for several years. Thus, it was mostly an off the top of my head sort of thing.

I then crossposted it several places, including the atheism group on livejournal, my personal livejournal, and the mailing list for KU's Society of Open Minded Atheists and Agnostics (which you may remember for a certain bit of controversy last December which resulted in Dr. Mirecki of the school being assaulted and your forms mentioned here. There's also another bit of my writing there apparently.)

Anyway, I'm glad to see people are enjoying it and that this forum doesn't seem to be filled with the brainwashed zealots of the ID movement. Apparently mac people are pretty intelligent. (I don't personally use Macs. Since I'm in the astronomy field I use Linux primarily since that's what all the software is for, and then Windows for gaming since I can do it on the same machine.)

But if you've enjoyed my writing there, I would encourage you to stop by my science/religion blog. It frequently focuses on the inane antics of the ID crowd but I also do a lot of blogging explaining some of the basics (and sometimes not so basics) of astronomy so that readers may better appreciate that which the religious right seeks to destroy.

~Jon Voisey

2 am?

Aren't you supposed to be at your telescope?

Hi, JonVoisey, glad to meetcha!

Oh, yeah, right! Duh.

Even without your posting a location, I should have considered that. Just what I get for trying to think of something clever too fast.

I though about posting your bit at IIDB, but I'm usually WAY behind the curve with those guys. Maybe you could see if it's posted there, if you haven't checked already. They would love it!

Last edited by user (2006-06-16 12:20 pm)

I post sometimes at IIDB, but usually just lurk/glance over topics there.

user wrote:

You must not be one of the convert-the-heathen types they get there sometimes.

Nah, the philosophy forum is interesting from time to time though. I grew up ostrasized by most kids because I didnt pledge allegiance to flags or sing carols or give out valentine cards etc. My lot was always with the outcrowd, and when I found outlets like hardcore and skateboarding, it gave me the opportunity to be exposed to all sorts of ideas I might not normally have considered by fellow outsiders; from athiesm to Krishna, and Marx to Chomsky. It can sometimes seem like when I am reading posts as though IIDB was advocating a kind of athiest fundamentalism (ha), but often I like discussing issues and hearing other perspectives there. My own religious views are not as wellknown as christendom's, and I agree with a lot of criticisms aimed at religion in general. JW's actually used to wear placards outside churches that read "religion is a snare and a racket" and "preachers are crooks."

wat?

And it's still intellectually dishonest.