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D'Eyncourt wrote:

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

D'Eyncourt wrote:

"Domestic" and "foreign" no longer has any real meaning in today's world. Almost all of the Hondas in the US are assembled in the US (some of which are exported to Japan). You should approach this with little concern for the supposed domestic nature of the manufacturer's badge--is Daimler-Chrysler an American or German company?-- and just get the best value regardless.

Let's not forget that "domestic" brands assemble as many of their vehicles outside of the US as "import" brands do.  There really is no such thing any longer.  We live in a global economy.
[snip]

Sure, but I don't know of any particular models now which were like the infamous Ford Festivas (Tempos?) of around 1990 which had most of their parts made in Brazil and which were assembled in Mexico. I think that the domestic manufacturers are making this sort of info a bit more difficult to ferret out.

Ferret out? It's usually on the sticker that has the VIN, paint codes, etc. Either under the hood, or on the driver's side doorjamb.

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

Fried Chicken wrote:

...Honda is discontinuing the hyrbid because it just isn't worth it...

Who do you think you are, Dvorak?    Trust me, this is complete nonsense.  Honda ignited the Hybrid revolution, and they're not leaving the game.

And just for frame of reference, I work for Honda.

Ahem...

And, if you read my entire post, it was in reference to the accord, I didn't make references to the civic.

nannyandnutro wrote:

Of course, if you can find a VW Eurovan, I can stand up straight in mine.  Now THAT'S headroom!

Damn, you're tiny!

KeilwerthSX90 wrote:

...Ferret out? It's usually on the sticker that has the VIN, paint codes, etc. Either under the hood, or on the driver's side doorjamb.

Actually, the first digit of the VIN will tell you the vehicle's country of origin.  However, that is only the final assembly point.  It may have had its assembly completed in one country, while many of its components were assembled elsewhere (engine, transmission, electronics, major stuff here).

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

Fried Chicken wrote:

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

Who do you think you are, Dvorak?    Trust me, this is complete nonsense.  Honda ignited the Hybrid revolution, and they're not leaving the game.

And just for frame of reference, I work for Honda.

Ahem...

And, if you read my entire post, it was in reference to the accord, I didn't make references to the civic.

Two things...

1.  You said simply, "Honda is discontinuing the hyrbid [sic]..."  You did not specify a model.

2.  "Lowering production" does not equal "discontinuing."

In my full post I was talking about the Honda Accord.  And, I read in my local newspaper that honda is discontinuing the accord.
But yes, I did not specify the accord.

TheConfuzed1 and Fried Chicken wrote:

<a lot of patter about Honda discontinuing hybrids>

In fact, further down in that article, it mentions that sales of the hybrid Civic are up 32%. A far cry from discontinuation.

KeilwerthSX90 wrote:

mo' ron wrote:

KeilwerthSX90 wrote:

Salesman are there to get you to spend more money than you would otherwise, and TC1, don't deny that.

That's only one of their goals.

They do help people too.

I went from lot to lot, and a salesman would come up and start working me. I'd say I'm looking for a coupe or hatchback, 4-cylinder, manual transmission, for under $6,000. They'd take me to a $10,000-$15,000 sedan, every time.

Reminds me of when my dad bought his first car. Don't remember what it was, but he knew the exact car he wanted and had enough in the bank to just write a check for it. When he sat down to sign with the salesman, they asked, "How would you like to pay for it?" He said, "I'll write you a check for the full amount." They said, "Oh, no, you don't want to do that; you want to get a payment plan." He said, "No, I don't; I want to write you a check." They said, "No, you really want a payment plan. Look, you could pay such-and-such a month for yea-many years." He said, "Why would I want a payment plan? Then I'd pay more for the car in the long run." They said, "But then you could have all that money to spend in the meantime!" He said, "That doesn't even make any sense! I would still be paying more for the same car!"

Finally he had to get a manager and threaten to walk out of the dealership before they would let him pay the entire amount.

If that's the kind of "help" car salesmen give, I think it falls in the category TC1 described as "not worth paying for." Besides which, why would I pay someone to give me the facts and information I can look up on my own?

JazzDuck wrote:

If that's the kind of "help" car salesmen give, I think it falls in the category TC1 described as "not worth paying for." Besides which, why would I pay someone to give me the facts and information I can look up on my own?

Exactly.  If I have a customer that is ready and capable of buying a vehicle, and we have agreed on a price, why on earth would I fight him on his payment method?  Please, write the check.  The sooner the better, in fact, so you can be on your way home and enjoying your new car, and I can start looking for my next sale.

JazzDuck wrote:

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

JazzDuck wrote:

If that's the kind of "help" car salesmen give, I think it falls in the category TC1 described as "not worth paying for." Besides which, why would I pay someone to give me the facts and information I can look up on my own?

Exactly.  If I have a customer that is ready and capable of buying a vehicle, and we have agreed on a price, why on earth would I fight him on his payment method?  Please, write the check.  The sooner the better, in fact, so you can be on your way home and enjoying your new car, and I can start looking for my next sale.

So, TC1, here's a question for you... why do you think it is that so many people have had experiences with "bad" car salesmen who are either pushy or won't listen to the customer? You seem to be a straightforward kind of guy, but that doesn't seem to be the experience of most of the people here when it comes to people in your line of work. Are salesmen like you really that rare, and if so, why?

The salesman that sold me my current car was great. He was young and new in the business and wasn't really out for every sale he could get. he had his eye on a finace position, and not sales.

Having dealt indirectly (through my daughter) with TC1, i'd have to say most salesmen i've dealt with since the first car i bought have not gone that extra step in helping us try to find what she needed/wanted.

The last guy i dealt with before i bought my car turned and walked away from me when i told him i wouldn't be buying a car that day. He didn't say anything. Just turned and left.  I went straight to the manager and told them that dealership lost a potential sale and why. I don't know if anything ever came of that, and i don't care. I got better service from the dealership i ended up buying from.

JazzDuck wrote:

TheConfuzed1 wrote:

JazzDuck wrote:

If that's the kind of "help" car salesmen give, I think it falls in the category TC1 described as "not worth paying for." Besides which, why would I pay someone to give me the facts and information I can look up on my own?

Exactly.  If I have a customer that is ready and capable of buying a vehicle, and we have agreed on a price, why on earth would I fight him on his payment method?  Please, write the check.  The sooner the better, in fact, so you can be on your way home and enjoying your new car, and I can start looking for my next sale.

So, TC1, here's a question for you... why do you think it is that so many people have had experiences with "bad" car salesmen who are either pushy or won't listen to the customer? You seem to be a straightforward kind of guy, but that doesn't seem to be the experience of most of the people here when it comes to people in your line of work. Are salesmen like you really that rare, and if so, why?

This is my answer, in a Pulp Fiction-style, 'it will all come together and make sense after you've read it,' kind of way:

1.  First and foremost, perception is everything.  Most people come on the lot with their defenses armed.  There are many stereotypes about my business, and there is no reason why you shouldn't expect me to fit within that general scope, if you have never met me before, and you have only had bad experiences in the past.  Therefore, when people walk onto the lot, they expect the sales person to lie, cheat, and steal from them.  In a defensive position, most customers will then do everything that they can to protect themselves and prevent themselves from being taken advantage of, including lying, cheating, and stealing from the salesperson/dealership.  This may sound harsh, but it's true in many cases.  The customer, of course, will never see it that way, and I don't expect them to.  They're scared.  They are in fear of paying too much and receiving bad service.  This puts most people on the wrong foot before they've ever even spoken to a salesperson.

2.  It is a fact that 90% of all people who enter into the car business leave it within six months.  That leaves 10% to work in the business for six months or longer.  That statistic is real, but from here, the numbers are my own observation...  Of those who stay in the business, 90% will not stay for any substantial length of time at any given dealership.  So now you have 1% of all salespeople staying in one place for any real amount of time.  This means that they have very little product knowledge, and they are unfamiliar with their customers.  When a customer asks this guy a question, and he doesn't have the answer, many times he will "wing it," and give false information, leading the customer to believe that he is either lying or incompetent.  Sometimes one, sometimes both, are true.

3.  Sales people are inherently lazy.  This is true, because it is allowed to be true.  New recruits, or "green peas" as we call them, are funny, because they usually seem nervous about just hanging out at work.  At most jobs, if you're not working with a customer, you'd better be doing something productive, such as wiping down a counter, or mopping a floor.  This just isn't so in the car business.  You work for commission, not by the hour, so you're only costing yourself if you're not productive.  The dealership only cares that you're able to cover the cost for you to work there (your commission equals more than minimum wage).  Unfortunately, this means that mostly, salespeople are just hanging out and waiting for customers to show up.  Here's another real statistic--The average car salesperson is actually productive for 10-15% of his time.  The rest of the time is spent just hanging out.  The top 5% in the industry collectively have higher incomes than the bottom 95% collectively.  Most of this comes down to how their time is spent at the dealership.

4.  People suck.  This includes salespeople and customers both.  Unfortunately, the gems (those who are genuinely interested in doing what it takes to help you) are hard to find.

5.  Skill is varied.  Some people are great sales people naturally, while others have to work hard at it.  Unfortunately, while skill can be learned, much of it is innate.  Those who have to work hard at it have a "ceiling" in their way.  They have limited abilities that can only take them so far.  Those who are natural sales people, unfortunately, don't work at becoming better because of #3--They are lazy, and comfortable with where they are, and don't try to be better.

6.  So far, we know that most sales people are inexperienced, unseasoned, lazy, and inept.  Take that guy, and put him together with the customer from #1, and what do you think their impressions of each other are going to be?  If you're sharp, you probably get that they're not going to hit it off.  The customer will tell all of his friends that the dealership would not work with them (their perception of the salesperson transfers to the entire dealership now), and the salesperson will tell all of the other salespeople that the customer was a dick, which he may have been, but again, that was a defense mechanism.  A gem from #4 will understand this.  No one else will.  A gem from #4 will know how to handle the customer from #1--With professionalism.  Unfortunately, most sales do not happen during first contact, so it's now up to the customer to come back and find that guy, because as we learned in #3, salespeople are lazy, and he likely will not ever follow up with the customer.  So now the customer comes back, and doesn't remember the salesperson's name, so he doesn't ask for him.  Now he has the privilege of dealing with one of the other guys--the inexperienced, unprofessional, lazy, inept, slob.  There goes that customer's initial first impression of the dealership.  It's a vicious cycle.  Unfortunately, perception is reality, and even though both sides are partly responsible for the negative experience, the salesperson should have done something to neutralize the situation, except, he is one of the less-skilled salespeople from #5 and he either didn't know how, or he didn't bother.

7.  Now, for what makes me different...  I've been with my dealership for eight years, which makes me a senior citizen in the industry.  I am a seasoned veteran, and I am very good at reading and understanding people, which helps with #1-2.  While I may have my moments, I am a hard worker.  I keep myself busy for most of the day, with productive, work-related activity (follow-up phone calls to current prospects and customers, letters, postcards, and emails)--#3 has been eliminated for me.  As far as #4 goes, I am that gem.  I am genuinely and sincerely interested in helping people.  I am a firm believer in the fact that if I give you a pleasant experience today, you are more than likely to send me referrals, and see me for your next vehicle.  Moving on to #5--I am a master salesperson.  I am not tooting my own horn here; I simply know my own strengths, and sales is one of them.  I am very good at selling.  My method is to simply present the facts (without lying) in a manner that puts my product in a positive light, give the customer a positive experience, and lead the customer to believe that it was his idea to buy from me, even though I craftily led him to that conclusion.    Quite honestly, I was born for this.

I am the internet sales manager, which means that most of my correspondence is done by email.  Email is easy to schedule, and this is the system that I have developed--

A.  I use proper grammar, and professional communication.

B.  Most people will get at least six follow-up emails from me, after making first contact, even if they never respond to the first.  If they provide a mailing address, I will send them a postcard by mail.  Since most salespeople don't bother beyond one follow-up, if any, this makes me already a cut above the rest.  My emails are never pushy, or invasive.  I simply say something along this lines of, "I just wanted to drop another line to see if I can help you any further with your research.  I am happy to answer any questions you may have."

C.  If they choose to do business with a competitor, I send them a congratulations email.  I thank them for giving me the opportunity to earn their business, even if I have not.  I also say that I will be happy to answer any questions that they may have about their vehicle, or schedule service for them, because chances are, their salesperson won't do either.  In six months they get another email from me to remind them that I'm still here to help them, even if their previous sales person is no longer available (because sadly, he generally won't be).  I simply tell them that due to the nature of the business, they may never hear from the person they chose to do business with previously, so I will "do his follow-up for him."  Around their one year anniversary, and annually after that, they will get a similar email.  Eventually, they have forgotten their salesperson, and I am "their guy."  I have won, in the long term.

Of course, I follow up with my own customers as well. 

D.  I never lie to a customer, or make up an answer if I do not know the answer.  I have had people ask me what the disadvantage is of owning my product over a competitor, and I'm always honest.  If I know an advantage of the competitor, I'll say so, as well as providing a reason why my product still will make a good choice (a reason that relates to the customer in that capacity).

E.  I never bag on the competition.  All this does is ruin your credibility.  I usually say that it's smart to compare products, and I point out the differences, allowing them to conclude on their own, that my product is better.

F.  I'm a real person.  If someone with kids for example has a question, I will give them an answer, with an example illustrating my viewpoint, which I have experienced with my own children.

G.  I am always professional, but in attitude and appearance.

H.  I acknowledge to the customer that I understand that they may choose to do business with a competitor, because after all, even if they do choose my product, they can get it at any number of dealerships, but there is one thing that I can offer them that no one else can... Me!  I tell them that is the only thing that I can promise that no one else will.  Sure, if they spend their entire weekend shopping, they may find the same item for a few hundred dollars less, but they won't have the pleasure of doing business with me.  You see, I have no problem with those who sell for less, because they know what their services are worth.  My service is worth paying a little more for, and most people realize that, if not today, eventually.

This method has earned me a professional reputation.  I have had people fly to me from L.A. and drive the 8-10 hour trip home in their new vehicle, because they know what they can expect from me as far as service and reliability.  I was even voted "Best of Yuba Sutter" in 2005 (our two major counties here are Yuba and Sutter.)

That, I hope, answers your question. 

There are two things that generally will need to be true in order for someone to stay at a dealership:

1.  They do well for themselves--they like the dealership, the people, the product, and they make a good income.

2.  They do well for the dealership--the dealership likes them, and they make the dealership gross profit.

Does that mean that they're likely to be a "gem?"  Not necessarily, but in my opinion, it is more likely to be so than not.  Clearly, someone that has spent that much time in one place knows the product, and understands the customers very well.  At a minimum, they should be able to give the impression of a genuine, helpful, salesperson, and provide a positive experience.

That person may still be lazy.  This isn't as big a deal for the customer as it is for the salesperson themselves.

Their innate skills may still be only average, or even sub-par, but after that kind of time, they should have at least been able to learn some real sales skills.  Some people try various techniques, and when they find one that works, they attempt to duplicate it in the future.  They are simply duplicating what worked before, even though they may not understand why it worked, or even comprehend that it's important to understand why it worked.

For someone to be at a dealership for fourteen years, she is probably, at worst, a good worker, otherwise they wouldn't have kept her for so long.

There are never any guarantees, but if I knew that she had been there for that length of time, and I didn't have any ties with any other sales people there, I would probably choose to work with her, if given the choice.

People buy things from people they know, like, and trust.  If she has a negative reputation, she may not be a good performer.  Take a look at the sales plaques on the wall, if they have them.  If she's been there for fourteen years, her name should be listed as sales leader of the month at least a few times.  If you don't see her name on any of the awards anywhere, perhaps there is a reason.  Then again, it could also be true that there is someone else at the dealership that has worked there for a long time and wins all of the awards, not giving her the chance to.  If so, perhaps speaking with that person will help you decide who you like best.

The key though, is if you do find someone that you like, you should ask for that person every time you call, or visit the dealership.  Hopefully, for both of your sakes, that person will still be there, and will be available.

The VW dealership I went to is horrible.  One guy is really nice, and really helpful.  He took us out on a test drive.  But, another guy was a piece of crap.  He had no idea about diesels, or anything.  The toyota dealer on the other hand is awesome.  Really nice, really friendly, and really helpful.  He doesn't lie, he says what he thinks, etc.

I wish the VW dealers would be as good as their products...

Buy American.
http://www.mercuryvehicles.com/grandmarquis/