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#1 2006-05-15 10:47 am

kman
Member
Registered: 2002-02-03
Posts: 1350

MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/200605 … 20060515_0

Sounds like the biggest threat to iTunes yet.  I still doubt people are going to want to buy songs that they can't use on their iPods.


I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it.

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#2 2006-05-15 10:53 am

MacBoy4139
BHA
From: Big Hair Anonymous
Registered: 2000-10-31
Posts: 10911

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

The amount of companies and people that don't understand why the iTMS is successful never ceases to amaze me.

It's sad really.


Dive in the Pool!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're a girl posing as Macboy4139, or a boy posing as a girl, and a bit confused sexually. <shrug> laughinol

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#3 2006-05-15 10:56 am

macnuke
just a plano guy
Moderator
From: North Dallas 40
Registered: 2004-05-16
Posts: 7134

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

yeah.,... I have an urge.

what part of iTms and iPod already has the MTV crowd in hand?
MTV going to stop with the iTunes/iPod adds?

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#4 2006-05-15 11:53 am

Gipetto
Yankee Doodle's noodle
Royal Wombat
From: People! Ahg!!
Registered: 2000-09-24
Posts: 9941
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

If there is one area where I can't quite grasp is just what effect opening up the iPod would have. I, personally, would love it if WMA DRM were supported on the iPod. Just think of the market that opens up. Yeah, there is a certain amount of people out there that will not buy an iPod because they don't buy into DRM as a whole, but then there are others that won't buy an iPod because its locked into a single source for purchased music - the iTMS.

Now, if it were open to the other major source, WMA DRM wouldn't that in effect make buying anything but an iPod stupid? If the only way to get all major DRM sources was on an iPod it would further solidify its position as the dominant player in the market. That is, to say, if they could negotiate a deal where they wouldn't have to in turn license FairPlay to the rest of the world.

At the same time, though, it would take emphasis away from the iTMS and spread more revenue around to the other music services. iTMS would lose some of its market dominance, but sales of iPods would almost be guaranteed. I guess it would also hand more bargaining chips over to the labels to try and get their tiered pricing model in place... who knows.

I just don't know - I get the feeling trying to make the iPod the omnipotent player could be a good thing for Apple 'cause I think we're gonna see a big fight between WMA DRM and FairPlay.

But then again, I'm no expert. I'm just thinking out loud.

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#5 2006-05-15 12:00 pm

MacBoy4139
BHA
From: Big Hair Anonymous
Registered: 2000-10-31
Posts: 10911

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

The iTMS is there to support and sell more iPods.  No other purpose.  There never was, and probably will never be.

That is what the intention of the person who invented the entire concept of the iPod and brought it to Apple.

This is also the same reason why so many people just don't get why the iTMS is so successful.  It isn't about selling music, it's about selling iPods.

Since Microsoft doesn't have an iPod competitor (yet) this is just another "oh well - another music store."

This is also the same reason why the iTMS and iPod will remain closed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the "above break even" profit that Apple is currently making goes away with the new contracts from the record labels.  They were at "break-even" for a VERY long time.


Dive in the Pool!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're a girl posing as Macboy4139, or a boy posing as a girl, and a bit confused sexually. <shrug> laughinol

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#6 2006-05-15 12:17 pm

ScifiterX
婚約中
Moderator
From: NW Palm Bay, Florida
Registered: 2000-02-10
Posts: 18088
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Don't make me time line you.
http://www.applegeeks.com/comic_archive … ?issue=241 From 1/9/06

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#7 2006-05-15 12:21 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

I wish the iPod supported gapless playback.

aac supports it - it's just iTunes/iPod that don't.

And the video iPod should support Theora.

And they should give away - with a free pony.
Yeah - if Apple gave away iPods with a free pony, that MTV service wouldn't have a hope.

But *sigh* it doesn't anyway - so I guess my wish list goes to /dev/null


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#8 2006-05-15 12:22 pm

MacBoy4139
BHA
From: Big Hair Anonymous
Registered: 2000-10-31
Posts: 10911

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Write them a letter.


Dive in the Pool!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're a girl posing as Macboy4139, or a boy posing as a girl, and a bit confused sexually. <shrug> laughinol

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#9 2006-05-15 12:53 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

MacBoy4139 wrote:

Write them a letter.

I did - and told them that if they take my suggestion, they owe me 25% of every sale big_smile

//That's actually why they don't take unsolicited suggestions

Actually I really did though - through the iTMS feedback thing - way back when they first made iTMS available to Windows users.

A lot of my music is live bootlegs, and it sucks to not have gapless - because when listening to the bootleg in order, there is always an annoying gap between each track.


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#10 2006-05-15 1:32 pm

henebry
Member
Registered: 2003-04-24
Posts: 477

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

resedit wrote:

MacBoy4139 wrote:

Write them a letter.

I did - and told them that if they take my suggestion, they owe me 25% of every sale big_smile

//That's actually why they don't take unsolicited suggestions

Actually I really did though - through the iTMS feedback thing - way back when they first made iTMS available to Windows users.

A lot of my music is live bootlegs, and it sucks to not have gapless - because when listening to the bootleg in order, there is always an annoying gap between each track.

I've noticed the same problem and I also find it irritating. There are some albums that I've ripped with songs batched together as a single file just to avoid the gapping.

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?


"I am flaccid with rage" - Steven Colbert on the iPhone

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#11 2006-05-15 1:34 pm

MacBoy4139
BHA
From: Big Hair Anonymous
Registered: 2000-10-31
Posts: 10911

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

henebry wrote:

resedit wrote:

MacBoy4139 wrote:

Write them a letter.

I did - and told them that if they take my suggestion, they owe me 25% of every sale big_smile

//That's actually why they don't take unsolicited suggestions

Actually I really did though - through the iTMS feedback thing - way back when they first made iTMS available to Windows users.

A lot of my music is live bootlegs, and it sucks to not have gapless - because when listening to the bootleg in order, there is always an annoying gap between each track.

I've noticed the same problem and I also find it irritating. There are some albums that I've ripped with songs batched together as a single file just to avoid the gapping.

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?

The only way to avoid the problem is to either:

a)  Buy a gapless album (such as Madonna's most recent one - which offers a gapless version)
b)  Merge the tracks into one album (which is the same as buying a gapless album)

It's not an attractive solution, but it is something.


Dive in the Pool!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're a girl posing as Macboy4139, or a boy posing as a girl, and a bit confused sexually. <shrug> laughinol

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#12 2006-05-15 1:47 pm

DevoDoc
Vardøger
From: The East Wing
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 2711

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

henebry wrote:

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?

It's the processor in the iPod that's the problem, not the files.  I have a concert album from iTMS, and you still hear the gaps when you listen to it on the iPod.

You also get gaps if you burn the CD from iTunes, because iTunes doesn't support disc-at-once burning.

The same album burned through Toast, however, is gapless.  Unfortunatley, I don't think recent versions of Toast will burn iTMS tracks.


We also know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling. - Henri Poincaré
http://www.cdc.gov/images/campaigns/SwineFlu/stayhome_130x73.jpg

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#13 2006-05-15 2:06 pm

mudogramx
Dead Man's Shoes
Registered: 2005-06-20
Posts: 776

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

DevoDoc wrote:

henebry wrote:

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?

It's the processor in the iPod that's the problem, not the files.  I have a concert album from iTMS, and you still hear the gaps when you listen to it on the iPod.

You also get gaps if you burn the CD from iTunes, because iTunes doesn't support disc-at-once burning.

The same album burned through Toast, however, is gapless.  Unfortunatley, I don't think recent versions of Toast will burn iTMS tracks.

Theres an option in iTunes to eliminate gaps between songs.  Under the burning tab in preferences, you can change the gap between songs to 0 sec.  It works great.

Last edited by mudogramx (2006-05-15 2:08 pm)


MAC=/=Macintosh

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#14 2006-05-15 2:09 pm

smilr
Soldering Iron Savvy
From: The Dalles OR, U. S. of Apple
Registered: 2000-06-21
Posts: 2869

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Have you tried enabling cross-fading and setting the duration of the fade to 0 or 0.1 seconds? Only helps in iTunes, but its better than nothing.


There is some solace in knowing that some things just can't be attained by throwing piles of money at them in the name of corporate greed. --CaptKevMan

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#15 2006-05-15 2:28 pm

MacBoy4139
BHA
From: Big Hair Anonymous
Registered: 2000-10-31
Posts: 10911

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

mudogramx wrote:

DevoDoc wrote:

henebry wrote:

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?

It's the processor in the iPod that's the problem, not the files.  I have a concert album from iTMS, and you still hear the gaps when you listen to it on the iPod.

You also get gaps if you burn the CD from iTunes, because iTunes doesn't support disc-at-once burning.

The same album burned through Toast, however, is gapless.  Unfortunatley, I don't think recent versions of Toast will burn iTMS tracks.

Theres an option in iTunes to eliminate gaps between songs.  Under the burning tab in preferences, you can change the gap between songs to 0 sec.  It works great.

They finally fixed that?  Good to know.


Dive in the Pool!

I'm still trying to figure out if you're a girl posing as Macboy4139, or a boy posing as a girl, and a bit confused sexually. <shrug> laughinol

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#16 2006-05-15 2:30 pm

Pariah
James Carville Fan..
From: Belly Of The Beast, Oklahoma!
Registered: 2001-05-24
Posts: 18410

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Gipetto wrote:

If there is one area where I can't quite grasp is just what effect opening up the iPod would have. I, personally, would love it if WMA DRM were supported on the iPod. Just think of the market that opens up. Yeah, there is a certain amount of people out there that will not buy an iPod because they don't buy into DRM as a whole, but then there are others that won't buy an iPod because its locked into a single source for purchased music - the iTMS.

Now, if it were open to the other major source, WMA DRM wouldn't that in effect make buying anything but an iPod stupid? If the only way to get all major DRM sources was on an iPod it would further solidify its position as the dominant player in the market. That is, to say, if they could negotiate a deal where they wouldn't have to in turn license FairPlay to the rest of the world.

At the same time, though, it would take emphasis away from the iTMS and spread more revenue around to the other music services. iTMS would lose some of its market dominance, but sales of iPods would almost be guaranteed. I guess it would also hand more bargaining chips over to the labels to try and get their tiered pricing model in place... who knows.

I just don't know - I get the feeling trying to make the iPod the omnipotent player could be a good thing for Apple 'cause I think we're gonna see a big fight between WMA DRM and FairPlay.

But then again, I'm no expert. I'm just thinking out loud.

I might point out the central flaw in this is that WMP9 DRM has not been ported to Macs at all.

Even if Apple wanted to be WMP compatible it would require Microsoft to reverse their decision to drop Mac development.


"and it's not surprising that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."
Barack Obama

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#17 2006-05-15 2:39 pm

mudogramx
Dead Man's Shoes
Registered: 2005-06-20
Posts: 776

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

kman wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20060515/tc_macworld/urge20060515_0

Sounds like the biggest threat to iTunes yet.  I still doubt people are going to want to buy songs that they can't use on their iPods.

This week's sign of the Apocalypse.


MAC=/=Macintosh

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#18 2006-05-15 3:04 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

mudogramx wrote:

DevoDoc wrote:

henebry wrote:

I've always wondered whether Apple fixes this problem for files sold via the ITMS: anyone here bought Dark Side of the Moon on ITMS? or a concert album? How does it sound?

It's the processor in the iPod that's the problem, not the files.  I have a concert album from iTMS, and you still hear the gaps when you listen to it on the iPod.

You also get gaps if you burn the CD from iTunes, because iTunes doesn't support disc-at-once burning.

The same album burned through Toast, however, is gapless.  Unfortunatley, I don't think recent versions of Toast will burn iTMS tracks.

Theres an option in iTunes to eliminate gaps between songs.  Under the burning tab in preferences, you can change the gap between songs to 0 sec.  It works great.

I'm more worried about gaps on the iPod and in iTunes - I don't care about burning, I never burn audio CDs.


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#19 2006-05-15 3:30 pm

DevoDoc
Vardøger
From: The East Wing
Registered: 2003-05-27
Posts: 2711

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Well, Apple did recently announce that they are dumping PortalPlayer's processor for the next generation of iPods, so maybe they will support gapless playback with the next revision.

...along with widescreen high definition video, 802.11n, and a gesture-language interface. wink

Last edited by DevoDoc (2006-05-15 3:39 pm)


We also know how cruel the truth often is, and we wonder whether delusion is not more consoling. - Henri Poincaré
http://www.cdc.gov/images/campaigns/SwineFlu/stayhome_130x73.jpg

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#20 2006-05-15 4:06 pm

smilr
Soldering Iron Savvy
From: The Dalles OR, U. S. of Apple
Registered: 2000-06-21
Posts: 2869

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

DevoDoc wrote:

Well, Apple did recently announce that they are dumping PortalPlayer's processor for the next generation of iPods, so maybe they will support gapless playback with the next revision.

...along with widescreen high definition video, 802.11n, and a gesture-language interface. wink

Got a link for that?

Last I knew they had turned down using the latest and greatest upcoming chip from portalplayer, not that they were going to stop using the current model from portalplayer.


There is some solace in knowing that some things just can't be attained by throwing piles of money at them in the name of corporate greed. --CaptKevMan

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#21 2006-05-15 5:02 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Well, anyway, I think it is a foregone conclusion that this mtv thing will be about as succesful as napster 2.0.


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#22 2006-05-15 5:30 pm

Czachorski
Member
Registered: 2002-12-20
Posts: 5591

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Article wrote:

“Microsoft believes that if it can match, or even better, the iPod/iTunes experience, compatibility will no longer matter,” said Wilcox. “The company is betting choice is more important, with respect to devices and music stores.

lol

First, MS believes "if" it can match/exceed and Apple user experience.  lol lol GFL with that MS.  Secondly, MS is betting on choice.  Ohhhh - how convenient for them.  Oh, I see - it is just "with respect to devices and music stores", but not with respect to anything else, huh.  Nice.  Greedy bastards.

Article wrote:

“It’s not about trying to get people away from iTunes, for us it’s about talking to the 95 percent of people that aren’t buying online music yet.”

They just had to find a way to get a jab that 95% of peope are not using the Apple product in every market.


Tracking the Tech

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#23 2006-05-16 6:50 am

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

Actually - I bet those numbers are accurate.
Most people do not buy online music. I rarely do anymore - CD is still a better deal for people like me (I like to have the entire album, and since I never see the CD once ripped - used is fine for me).


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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#24 2006-05-17 7:02 pm

garrythegarlic
Member
From: Honoulu, HI Post
Registered: 2001-03-12
Posts: 1204
Website

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

I've not purchased one CD in a store since itms came out.  I have however purchased 400+ tracks online.  Even in the rare event that I do want an entire album, its cheaper, I don't have to drive to the store and hope they have it.  Even if I did get a CD, I'd rip just it and never look at it again anyway.  I can't imagine going back to buying real CDs.


There are no stupid questions, but there are a LOT of inquisitive idiots.

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#25 2006-05-17 7:09 pm

Mercury52
Card Guy
From: NY
Registered: 2004-08-24
Posts: 788

Re: MS, MTV take on iTunes w/ URGE

All of the tracks I've gotten from iTunes were either the free tracks/albums they sometimes have, pepsi cap wins, or gift cards from others.

I tend to buy music on CD so that I can rip it as much as I'd like into however many different formats, and still go back to the original when I want/need.

I haven't illegally downloaded music in about 3 years.  Just don't need that much music.

I think I have bought more music overall though thanks to iTunes, because I can browse through the store and listen to the 30 second preview clips.  Then I buy the CD from somewhere.


Why isn't anything raisin-flavored?

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