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Ribtorus wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

resedit wrote:

Example please.

That was the main theme of the first book.  I can't recall exact quotes, but multiple times you have characters saying things like "i had to reject all of the evidence and everything I knew and just go on faith" with the context making it clear that faith and evidence are by definition irreconcilable.

Yeah. Like Maverick in 'Top Gun'; "...up there, there's no time to think. If you think, you're dead"

That's from the Gospel of Cruise.

In this case though, you have to think about the facts, then reject whatever you think.

kb5zhh wrote:

Ribtorus wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

That was the main theme of the first book.  I can't recall exact quotes, but multiple times you have characters saying things like "i had to reject all of the evidence and everything I knew and just go on faith" with the context making it clear that faith and evidence are by definition irreconcilable.

Yeah. Like Maverick in 'Top Gun'; "...up there, there's no time to think. If you think, you're dead"

That's from the Gospel of Cruise.

In this case though, you have to think about the facts, then reject whatever you think.

Well, at this point, he's already rejecting the 'facts' that Kelly McGillis is trying to teach him.

resedit wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

resedit wrote:

Example please.

That was the main theme of the first book.  I can't recall exact quotes, but multiple times you have characters saying things like "i had to reject all of the evidence and everything I knew and just go on faith" with the context making it clear that faith and evidence are by definition irreconcilable.

I did not get from it that evidence and faith are irreconcilable.
I did get from it that evidence can be both misleading and mis-interpreted.

Case in point - there is evidence that the sun moves around the earth.
You see it rise in the east, and set in the west.

But is a mis-interpretation of the evidence to believe that the sun actually does move around the earth. We don't "need faith" to know that the earth actually revolves around the sun, because we have the science to understand what is really happening - but that is not always the case, and we are easily misled by jumping to conclusions and mis-interpreting evidence that is either fraudulent or incomplete.

I don't recall a single character making that point.  And in fact, the rapture is a good example of evidence showing that christianity is correct.  But that point is never made by the text.

resedit wrote:

Case in point - I was watching some science show - and the proffesor said -

"When men moved from a vegetarian diet to a meat eating diet, the extra protein caused an increase in brain capacity through evolution resulting in our increased intelligence"

Link?  That sounds like an unlikely statement.

btw, just so we are clear - I don't think "Left Behind" is how it will go down.
I do think though that it is a neat fictional story on an interpretation.

I just disagree that this game is any kind of extension of the book - I would highly doubt that the author of the series wants anything to do with the game, and I would not be surprised if he spoke out against it.

To me the series is like Harry Potter series - except rather than completely made up, it is based upon the authors interpretation of how events might unfold.

Imagine: you are a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to remake America as a Christian theocracy, and establish its worldly vision of the dominion of Christ over all aspects of life. You are issued high-tech military weaponry, and instructed to engage the infidel on the streets of New York City. You are on a mission - both a religious mission and a military mission -- to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state

That right clearly indicates that this game has absolutely zero to do with Left Behind.
It also indicates it is a very sick game.

resedit wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

resedit wrote:

Case in point - I was watching some science show - and the proffesor said -

"When men moved from a vegetarian diet to a meat eating diet, the extra protein caused an increase in brain capacity through evolution resulting in our increased intelligence"

Link?  That sounds like an unlikely statement.

As I said - I was watching a science show - I think it was either discovery or national geographic channel.

But the point is - evidence by itself is easily mis-interpreted, particularly because we as a species are rather ignorant about many things yet pride ourselves on our knowledge. We don't like to think that there may be explanations to observations that we are too stupid to know about, or that we just might be mis-interpreting the evidence. It happens a lot.

Hell - go back to the 50s and read journals on what causes homosexuallity - they thought they knew, yet now we know just about everything they thought was wrong.

And again, the point is not that science and religion are inherently contradictory.  The point is that the Left Behind book series rejects the idea of using your mind.

resedit wrote:

Imagine: you are a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to remake America as a Christian theocracy, and establish its worldly vision of the dominion of Christ over all aspects of life. You are issued high-tech military weaponry, and instructed to engage the infidel on the streets of New York City. You are on a mission - both a religious mission and a military mission -- to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state

That right clearly indicates that this game has absolutely zero to do with Left Behind.
It also indicates it is a very sick game.

The entire left behind series represents a sick ideology.

resedit wrote:

The Company > Vision

Our Mission

The mission of Left Behind Games is to become the world’s leading independent developer and publisher of quality interactive entertainment products that perpetuate positive values and appeal to mainstream and Christian audiences, while remaining committed to increasing shareholder value and pursuing the highest standards of integrity and professionalism in all business affairs.

New Genre

For the Year of 2003, the Gospel Music Association (GMA) reported sales of more than 47.1 million CDs.

Controversial as it has been, The Passion of the Christ has generated more than $500 million since it's release. Experts are expecting it to become one of the top ten financially successful movies of all-time.

To date, not one high-quality video game has been marketed to this same audience. It is management’s belief that LEFT BEHIND will be a catalyst for a new genre of video game entertainment; known, as stated by the Wall Street Journal, as "God Games".

That's from the game makers website -

http://www.leftbehindgames.com/pages/the_company.htm

There you have it - the motive is profit, just like any other game.
Also - outside of the article posted from a biased source (which does not mean the article is wrong) I find absolutely zero indication that the game will be marketed through a "Pastor Network" ala the Mike Warren book.

This is just like any other game out there based upon a book or movie - the only difference is this book happens to be related to Christians.

The motive is profit, they make that clear.

Of course they plan on making money.  Was that under contention?  Or are you trying to move the goal posts?

kb5zhh wrote:

The entire left behind series represents a sick ideology.

You are entitled to that opinion.
Now - what is your opinion on the idealogy of the GTA games?

After you answer that -  Does anyone here remember the threads about GTA and how people shouldn't get their panties in a wad over them?

resedit wrote:

JakeTheTall wrote:

resedit wrote:

That right clearly indicates that this game has absolutely zero to do with Left Behind.
It also indicates it is a very sick game.

Hello Resedit, and welcome to what is actually the third page of the topic.

You should read what I posted on the second page.

I think what you quoted was a deliberate misconstruing of the game.

Either that - or tyndale was unaware of those intententions when they licensed the name, and it is too late for them to legally do anything about it.

See my quote from the left behind book webpage.  The main authors are heavily onboard.

resedit wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

The entire left behind series represents a sick ideology.

You are entitled to that opinion.
Now - what is your opinion on the idealogy of the GTA games?

After you answer that -  Does anyone here remember the threads about GTA and how people shouldn't get their panties in a wad over them?

See, I'm with resedit on this one.  Its just a game, no ?  And if it isn't, how is it different from the plethera of other voilent games out there?

So, regardless of the fun of deconstructing the profit motives of the "religious" folk involved, and the hypocrisy of a "Thou Shalt Not Kill"-peaceful-religion group that has a violent video game, its just a game.  No ?

[edit: ok, seems we're mostly all agreed...I'm off to the Cyberpawz thread....I think they have pie....]

Last edited by JakeTheTall (2006-06-02 5:35 pm)

JakeTheTall wrote:

resedit wrote:

kb5zhh wrote:

The entire left behind series represents a sick ideology.

You are entitled to that opinion.
Now - what is your opinion on the idealogy of the GTA games?

After you answer that -  Does anyone here remember the threads about GTA and how people shouldn't get their panties in a wad over them?

See, I'm with resedit on this one.  Its just a game, no ?  And if it isn't, how is it different from the plethera of other voilent games out there?

I'm certainly not arguing that the game should be censored.  I think the only point is that a christian game is simulating violence against non-christians, which does make me sit uneasy.