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#76 2006-07-09 2:05 am

smilr
Soldering Iron Savvy
From: The Dalles OR, U. S. of Apple
Registered: 2000-06-21
Posts: 2869

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

Thank You bratboy, Farmerkev and KingFred - I'm glad this was resolved before I came back to the thread to see his responses - saves me from saying something that would get me dragged down with him.


There is some solace in knowing that some things just can't be attained by throwing piles of money at them in the name of corporate greed. --CaptKevMan

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#77 2006-07-09 2:29 am

jerwin
Sophist
From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
Registered: 2003-01-01
Posts: 7071

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

"Lady Liberty" in urine? A little derivative, but ok...
I suspect that many who fulminate against Serrano are unfamiliar with the sheer beauty of some of his works


Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual

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#78 2006-07-09 9:55 am

Pithecanthropus
Roast Master
From: St. Cloud, MN
Registered: 2002-12-30
Posts: 4452
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

Gatchaman wrote:

So why didn't the crack heal?

I believe that he is supposed to be in the process of healing it.  At least that's what the people said on the forum I found it.

[aside]  About a year ago, my friend had the opportunity to stage manage an outdoor music festival in Indiana featuring Paul Revere and the Raiders.  The clouds started to look omninous and he needed to check the radar on the internet to see whether he should consider cancelling the show.  The only internet connection was in a small trailer occupied by an insurance agent, my friend asked to use his computer, sat down, looked up and saw this painting hanging next to the guys's desk.  He almost screamed. 

I found this the other day and sent him a copy...  [/aside]

Last edited by Pithecanthropus (2006-07-09 9:55 am)


Grandfatherly advice:  You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.

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#79 2006-07-09 11:25 am

jerwin
Sophist
From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
Registered: 2003-01-01
Posts: 7071

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

SmokeytheDog wrote:

It looks like the great healer laying hands on the symbol of our cracked and broken society.

http://www.ushistory.org/libertybell/ wrote:

There is widespread disagreement about when the first crack appeared on the Bell. However, it is agreed that the final expansion of the crack which rendered the Bell unringable was on Washington's Birthday in 1846.

By Zeus, we've been living in sin for 160 years.

Last edited by jerwin (2006-07-09 9:57 pm)


Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual

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#80 2006-07-09 11:38 am

JakeTheTall
Cargo Cultist
From: In Permanent Opposition
Registered: 2003-03-13
Posts: 9612

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

I never understood the reverance for the Liberty Bell.  Isn't it just a poorly made bell?  That had its fifteen minutes of fame turned into a tourist trap ?

And, as was said...the whole idol worshipping angle is against the Ten Commandments.  Well, ok, just like the second one, but still.


Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.  Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."  They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew.

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#81 2006-07-09 12:26 pm

Pithecanthropus
Roast Master
From: St. Cloud, MN
Registered: 2002-12-30
Posts: 4452
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

JakeTheTall wrote:

I never understood the reverance for the Liberty Bell.  Isn't it just a poorly made bell?  That had its fifteen minutes of fame turned into a tourist trap ?

That's the way I feel about it.

What makes America great?  Shoddy workmanship!


Grandfatherly advice:  You can drink 'em pretty, but you can't drink 'em smart.

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#82 2006-07-09 2:15 pm

mackerm
Screw Benjamin Franklin
From: Los Angeles, Estados Unidos
Registered: 1999-02-25
Posts: 2474
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

JakeTheTall wrote:

I never understood the reverance for the Liberty Bell.  Isn't it just a poorly made bell?

Big Ben is also a cracked bell which has inspired undeserved reverence. It's really big, though... that's something.

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#83 2006-07-10 12:46 am

JonVoisey
Member
Registered: 2006-06-16
Posts: 4

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

While I certainly support the right of this church to build whatever mounument they want, I think it's important that we take a look at the intended message, given that it is "art".

While it claims to be a symbol in opposition of poverty and all that wonderful sounding stuff, how does it actually represent that at all? I don't see that it does.

However, the symbolism speaks to me in a very different way. The most direct and worrying way is that the church erecting it sees absolutely no differentiation between Christianity and Government. This is what bothers me the most. Again, I don't feel that they don't have the right to make such a statement, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it.

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#84 2006-07-10 7:45 am

Metacell
misanthropist
From: The space between the spaces
Registered: 2005-03-19
Posts: 5863
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

Not to mentioin that the values represented by liberty in America (freedom, equality, individualism) rarely coincide with those of Christianity (love, sacrifice, submission to God) and are occasionally contradictory.


Ho Eyo He Hum

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#85 2006-07-10 10:15 am

sturner
Royal High Poobah
Moderator
From: Carrollton, TX USA
Registered: 2000-01-31
Posts: 13800

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

The Statue of Liberty is exactly that. A statue celebrating the blood spilled to free those held in slavery in the USA. It was a gesture by France to acknowledge that the people of the US righted a wrong, were strong enough to make that effort, and validated that effort with their own blood and lives.

Regardless of what the reasons for the Civil War are cast as, it comes down to the question of slavery. When you count the cost, you have to include both sides, as they were all Americans. It was the most costly war we have ever fought. In a sense it goes on even today.

The words that go with it were put there by us, because we were uncomfortable with the reference to our participation in slavery and inclusion of African-Americans as equals. It emphasises the other immigrants, those that came voluntarily.

When you understand all that it implies, and symbolizes, you can draw your conclusions. Mine is that this pastor hasn't the foggiest idea of what Lady Liberty symbolizes. And he doesn't really care. He is propagating his own agenda, which may only touch ther periphery of the original meaning of this statue.

If anything, the orginal has only secular meaning, and may even be thought of as having anti-religious meaning, or at least neutral meaning. Remember that many of those "huddled masses yearning to breath free" came here fleeing religious persecution. Ironic that they should, considering that many of the original colonies persecuted anyone not of thier supported religion.


I'm not dead yet.
There are 3 types of people, those who can count and those who can't.
"There are few things graven in stone, excepting your date of death."

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#86 2006-08-31 6:59 pm

annette
Member
Registered: 2006-08-31
Posts: 4

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

this show I just saw, Moyers on P.B.S. w/ Ms. Atwood, the author
she said,
when a government is seen as a theocracy
to be against the government becomes herasy

the sybol of our country's freedom is a sybol of our government
is seems like a small step in the direction depicted in her book.

* great sig, Pithecanthropus
Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat.

"every thing I like is either immoral, illegal or fattening"

Last edited by annette (2006-08-31 7:02 pm)

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#87 2006-08-31 8:09 pm

jerwin
Sophist
From: The Garden of Pure Ideology
Registered: 2003-01-01
Posts: 7071

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus


Some subjects actually enjoy pain, and withhold information they might otherwise have divulged in order to be punished.
Central Intelligence Agency. (1983). Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual

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#88 2006-08-31 8:30 pm

MrJ in OZ
Come and get one in the yarbles.
From: paradise
Registered: 2005-02-04
Posts: 3458

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

Sternum wrote:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/200 … y.1901.jpg

On Independence Day, Lady Liberty was born again.

As the congregation of the World Overcomers Outreach Ministries Church looked on and its pastor, Apostle Alton R. Williams, presided, a brown shroud much like a burqa was pulled away to reveal a giant statue of the Lady, but with the Ten Commandments under one arm and "Jehovah" inscribed on her crown.

And in place of a torch, she held aloft a large gold cross, as if to ward off the pawnshops, the car dealerships and the discount furniture outlets at the busy corner of Kirby Parkway and Winchester that is her home. A single tear graced her cheek.

It was not clear if she was crying because of her new home, her new identity as a symbol of religion or, as the pastor said, America's increasing godlessness. But although big cheers went up from the few hundred onlookers at the unveiling, and some people even wore foam Lady Liberty crowns bearing Christian slogans, she was not universally welcomed.

LINK

I'm not a Christian, but I'm embarrassed on their behalf when "megachurches" partake in crazy-ass nonsense like raping the Statue of Liberty in the name of Jesus. Not only does this constitute idol worship, but the money spent on building this monstrosity -- donations from the congregation -- would have been better suited for outreach programs. Think of all the good things that could have been done with a smooth quarter-million, especially in economically depressed areas like neighborhood this thing was erected. If I lived there, this gold-plated piece of trash would be a constant slap in the face.

Furthermore, it makes a mockery of the spirit of the original Statue of Liberty by pissing all over the millions of Jewish and Muslim immigrants that have made the United States their home. Lady Liberty is one of the original icons of acceptance and diversity, and these yokels have turned her into a symbol of exclusion and judgement. Simply ugly.

Holy smurf man. I’m not even American and this disturbs me in the utmost. This screams of 'if you aint Christian, dont bother coming to America' to me.  I wouldnt blame some residents if they hooked up a wench and yanked that gowd awful hideous idol over in the dead of night. If I lived next door, I would put up a statute of Jesus on the cross upsidown being dipped into a vat of acid just to teach them a lesson.

Last edited by MrJ in OZ (2006-08-31 8:31 pm)


*Fallacy at its zenith kids.* "Who is this "we" you keep talking about? What price have "you" paid for this war? Blah, Blah. Its hardly a "we" proposition."

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#89 2006-08-31 9:23 pm

StaticAge
Fearless Vampire Killer
From: Crouching in your pea patch
Registered: 2002-08-28
Posts: 6936
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

The idolization of the nation has been out in full force for a while, not surprising. Nietzsche predicted it in Zarathustra. Its an outgrowth of the death of God, murdered by christendom and modernity. The simulacra of religion, crosses etc, combined with that of the nation is grotesque but understandable. They are a lost herd with only dead symbols to worship, I imagine the combination of the cross with the statue of liberty is a vain attempt to try and make one living god by combining two dead ones. Those making  them are bound to become just like them- dead inside without any real hope for the future.


"Live with your head in the lion's mouth. I want you to overcome 'em with yeses, undermine 'em with grins, agree 'em to death and destruction, let 'em swoller you till they vomit or bust wide open." -Ralph Ellison

"Overpower, overcome" -Cro-Mags

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#90 2006-08-31 9:32 pm

resedit
Chicken Little
Royal Wombat
From: /dev/null
Registered: 1999-11-01
Posts: 50394
Website

Re: Lady Liberty finds Jesus

Why a goat?


In her right hand Jenny held the Bible of her mother
Jenny had a pistol in the other
-- Steve Taylor

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