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It's no more nutty than blowing yourself up in jihad in order to snag 70 virgins in the afterlife.

It's good that people like that lay their beliefs out on the line. That way the rest knows what they face.

This third world war stuff being bandied about is overstating what's going on.

Those pushing for more war, not less, are delusional.

robco wrote:

It's no more or less nutty than blowing yourself up in jihad in order to snag 70 virgins in the afterlife.

Fixed.

Religion can provide another check beyond internalised morality and law. It can also give nutcases an excuse (one which should be ignored) to avoid being comitted.

This is why I fully support the Christian Exodus movement.

OK - I'm going to be completely honest here.
There have been some advertisements I've seen on foxnews that bother me. They bother me a lot.
They are looking for donations to help with the Israelis who are suffering discomfort as a result of the war, and quoting partial passages of scripture.

The one they quote most often in their quest for donations:

Genesis 12:3a wrote:

3 I will bless those who bless you

They are trying to sell blessing from God - indicating that God will bless you if you give money to them.

Here is more context -

Gen 12:1-3 wrote:

1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you.
  2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.
  3 I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves."

Notice what verse 2 says - I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing

God gives the clear reason behinf the blessing of Abraham - it is not because he and his offspring are something special, it is so that they can be a blessing to other nations.

This is further confirmed in verse 3 - and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves.

That's actually not a great translation, a better way of translating it is something along the lines of "by you all people groups will be blessed"

-=-

That promise will be kept to the literal offspring of Abraham, but the new testament makes it clear, from the very words of Jesus, that Jews who reject Jesus are not sons of Abraham as far as the promised covenant goes. There are some Jews who have accepted messiah, but most have not.

The new testament also makes it clear that us christians have been grafted into Abrahams line - thus, what the Genesis 12:1-3 passage really means is that it is the duty of christians who have been blessed to use that blessing to bless all the people groups of the Earth, as was intented for Israel to do - which they will do when Israel returns to God and accepts Messiah.

Anyway - the way the passage is used in that advertisement is completely wrong.
Israel is a wealthier country, and while there is nothing wrong with helping out with the financial needs of poor Jews who have been impacted, the Lebanese that have been impacted should not be forgotten, and quite probably should be a higher priority for Christian giving.

Well sure, the Bible says all nations are descended from Abraham.  Doesn't it go on to list all the sons and from what direction they went out to settle?  I mean, even if one were not to believe the Bible literally it's at least an early attempt to rationalize the larger world, various races and so forth as being "one."  But yes, I agree that scripture should be read as you stated and not how it's being presented in those rather repugnant advertisements.  It's so easy to present religion in an unsavory light when it gets permeated with politics, but that's just me.  My parents would cringe seeing that advertising.

bedstuy wrote:

Well sure, the Bible says all nations are descended from Abraham.  Doesn't it go on to list all the sons and from what direction they went out to settle?  I mean, even if one were not to believe the Bible literally it's at least an early attempt to rationalize the larger world, various races and so forth as being "one."  But yes, I agree that scripture should be read as you stated and not how it's being presented in those rather repugnant advertisements.  It's so easy to present religion in an unsavory light when it gets permeated with politics, but that's just me.  My parents would cringe seeing that advertising.

No - it says all nations are descendant from Noah.
Abraham is the father of Issac and Ishmael.

The inheritance (what was promised to Abraham) went to Issac.

Isaac was the father of Jacob and Esau - I don't know whu Esau's modern day descendants are, if there are any - but the inheritance passed from Isaac to Jacob, who was the father of the 12 tribes of Israel.

Ishmael is the father of the modern day Arab nations.

While the blessing and inheritance of Abraham was passed to Isaac and then Jacob, God also specifically bless Ishmael and his descendents.

bedstuy wrote:

oh right... messed that one up!  details, details...  I probably should re-read the Bible at some point.

They have it on iTMS, read by Darth Vader if I'm not mistaken.

They cant make up their minds- instead of an angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other, its Mel Gibson and the 700 Club.

They keep rewriting the story to fit the current situation.
Armageddon eminent list so far in my life:
1. The Arab/ Israeli war.
2. The breakup of the Soviet Union.
3. Y2K
4. Now this.

They just shuffle around the way they interpret the bible and give themselves another massive fundraising slogan.
Nice scam.

Last edited by Pariah (2006-07-27 6:14 pm)

punkgeek wrote:

BUT...I thought the Jews killed Jesus?

Some Jews killed Jesus - as was prophecied would take place by a Jew (Isaiah 53).
Well, I guess technically the Romans killed him, but at the request of the Jews.

But - as Jesus was up there on the cross, what he say? "Forgive them, for they know not what they do"

If that's the attitude Christ had, as the actual one being killed, then anyone else - IE people who WERENT killed - really has no room to "blame the Jews" or hold anything against them.

It was Gods will that Christ would die. Death was only temporary condition, he got over it after 3 days.